Dear Hasin
Hypocrisy is not good on islamic discussion. you asked me question and i replied and once more it was proove your intention is not pleasing Allah. God knows the best.
any way start from here...In fact this is a post which you people neglected and diverted discussion and when realised it is on second page you once started to shout Oh this discussion is only for zanjeer zani. ect
Do You think you will never die and you will be able to fool like this To Allah also?
amy way start from here.:
Dear mohammad
Well this is hard to believe. It is okay to ask the "mulla chopris" for answers but when an aalim who has studied ten years, comes and tells us things we do not want to hear, we abuse and insult him?
As per you yours Alim studied ten years. without asking where he studied i would like to confirm he do not have any right to speak against mujtahuids and his senior scholars. and even Allam.
http://www.tnfj.org.pk/azadari/
Ayatullah seestani said"
Question: What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?
Answer: If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.
and you also agree that you also know this.....In fact this fatwa is well known fatwa and all scholar know this. what fatwa you quoted is same with change of wordings IF YOU WANT TO SAY AYATULLAH SEESTANI ISSUED TWO TYPE OF FATWA IN ONE HE SAID NO OBJECTION(CONDITION APPLY) AND IN ONE PROHIBITED THAN YOU ARE TRYING TO INSYLT HIM ALSO.
MAJORITY OF MUJTAHIDS SAID MORE OF LESS SAME iF THERE IS FEAR OF DEATH OR PERMANENT LOSS OF LIMB THEN IT IS PROHIBITED BECAUSE KILLING YOURSELVES WITH INTENTION OF CUTTING YOUR LIMB PERMANENTLY IS HARAM ACT..
WE ALL KNOW NO ONE TRY TO KILL OR CUT HIS LIMB PERMANENTLY...
Sorry, I do not understand what you are trying to say. Can you please elaborate?
You can write here and also listen your mullas lecture so i cant say you are blind and deaf BUt the question comes why you cant read this? CANT READ OR DO NOT WANT TO READ? SHOULD I QUOTE QURAN ABOUT YOUR THIS ACT?
I AM EXPLAINING YOU..ONCE MORE..MY QUOTED WORDS.which you intentionally do not want to read as you know we caught you.....
YOUR POST IS A OLD VERSION OF SAME CHAIN POST WITH WITH WISELY EDITED VERSION. EDITED BECAUSE PEOPLE CAUGHT YOU PEOPLE OPENLY DEFENDING YAZEEDI LASHKAR.
REFER THIS POST:
http://www.ezsoftech.com/mazloom/zanjeer.asp (Posted in 2002)
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2170 ( MR mohamamd said Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008)
I request all the members to read comments in both posts after quoted fatwa.....
Your first post is Shaykh Zayd Salami, in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008 said this....(NEW VERSION 2008)
SAME POST WITH DIFFERENT EXPLAINATION WITH SAME REF FATWA IS HERE
http://www.ezsoftech.com/mazloom/zanjeer.asp(OLD VERSION 2002)
Fatwa quoted by you and in old version is same BUT DIFFERENT IS EXPLANATION .INFACT IN THIS NEW VERSION JUST YOUR SO CALLED MULLA CHANGED FEW WORDS AND REMOVED FEW SENTENCES.
I AM FOR REF OF ALL THE MEMBERS QUOTING BOTH EXPLANATION.
NEW VERSION 2008 posted by muhammad
s can be seen quite clearly from the fatwas of these three great Mujtahids, actions like Qama Zani and Zanjeer must not be practiced. To support the Ulama’s belief that the kuffar misuse such actions, visit the sites below and see for yourself.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20 ... _islam.htm
http://www.ansar.org/english/photos-eng.htm
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/maatam.htm
We then naturally come to the question, “How then, was Hadhhrat Uwais-al Qarni’s action justifiable?”
1. When Hadhrat Uwais broke his teeth, the enemies of Islam did not point that action out as something bad as they do now. Hence due to the situation today, the Ulama consider it best that such actions not be performed.
Surah Baqarah:Verse 104 is a Qur’anic reference to prove this viewpoint, as Allah says, “O you who believe, say not (unto the Prophet), Look upon us but say Look upon us…” The words raena and andharna have similar meanings in Arabic (look upon us). However, in Hebrew, raena is a swear word. Thus when the early Muslims used to call upon the Prophet with raena, the Jews used to mock them. To stop this mocking, Allah commanded the Muslims to refer to the Prophet differently.
2. When Hadhrat Uwais broke his teeth, he did it out of emotion and love for the Prophet. Thus when the Prophet used to praise Uwais, he did not praise the breaking of the teeth but the sincerity of the action.
3. Hadhrat Uwais broke his teeth only once; and never did he do any other such action. Thus we too cannot make it a habit as we see no continuation of such practice after Uwais; during the lifetime of the Prophet with the other As’hab or during the lifetime of the other Imams after the tragedy of Karbala. Imam Husayn
himself asked Bibi Zaynab
not to beat herself and pull her hair after his martyrdom.
As we have seen from the above explanations that the acts of Zanjeer, walking on fire and the like are not beneficial nor permissible. Let us, who have accused and abused the brave Shaykh go and apologize to him and to Imam Husayn
for our indecent actions. I would also like to ask those with “little education” to think carefully before slandering an alim or reciter of Husayn
.
All of us must have experienced loss of a dear one and thus real grief at one time or the other. We will only then feel like beating our chests and heads. That is a spontaneous reaction to the grief. Such is the reaction we show during azadari, however, with a difference: after smoking a couple of cigarettes and gulping down some juice, after cracking a few jokes outside the imambara. Can we call that real grief?
And if it is very important for us to give out blood, then why not donate blood? This way, we will be spreading the message of Imam peacefully and saving lives too. And if we feel the spirit is not there while doing so, let us take an mp4 player with us and play a nawha while doing this noble act!
NOW OLD VERSION 2002 PUBLISHED BY TWEBSITE
After reading the above mentioned orders from two Great Ayatollah's of our times. People should start following the orders to safeguard Islam and to fail the propaganda of "Taghoot" and arrogant powers of this era against Shiites proving them "Crazy" & "Insane" people who beat themselves sometimes so hard even threatening their own lives. To see the propaganda of "Taghoot" by yourself to believe, please visit the below given four links.
As such the true form of Azadari (mourning) is relevant to Wilayat only. The Azadari seen mostly are a set of rituals which are done with the purpose of earning rewards, expressing love of Imam Hussain (a.s.) in the form of grief, or expressing condolence to his mother Fatima Zahra (s.a.). Whereas Azadari in its true sense is awakening of the Ummah to stand and protest against the Yazid of our age and denounce their cruel and harmful policies towards Islam, and this spirit is very much lacking in our Azadari sessions, and this can only be enlightened through the Wilayat of the righteous, that is the Ulama (Faqih) during the occultation of Imam-e-Zamana (a.t.f.s.).
As far as mourning is concerned and getting attention of entire world, then it should be done very nicely with "beating chests and heads with hands" and with complete discipline in procession. All the people should participate with fully dressed in black cloths. Then definitely it will impress the entire world and will force them to accept us as a peace loving people. On the other hand people fear from Shiites when they see them doing Zanjeer Zani crazily and from head to toe covered with blood.
Some people call it Mojeza (Miracle) of Imam Hussain (a.s.), that there is no infection out of the wounds of Zanjeer and Qama.
As far as no infection with Zanjeer and Qama is concerned, shows the lack of knowledge regarding cultures and religions of world. National Geographic channel has shown many times that in some countries they do the same things which Shiites do and they neither feel pain nor infection after doing so. Hence they can also claim it as Mojeza. So, it has been decided that religion can not be practiced according to our assumptions and self-made thoughts instead we should commemorate true Azadri with its soul.
Some says; this is an issue of Aqeeda, whereas Taqleed is forbidden in Aqeeda, so what concern we have with the Marjae's?
This is one more ignorant question. Aqeeda (Usool example Tauheed) is belief, beliefs are always in the heart, when the beliefs get manifested in practical form it becomes Furoo (example Salaat), and all Furoo are controlled by laws of Shariah. Now love for Allah is Tauheed, but when the same love comes into action it become Salaat, which is Furoo, and Shariah will tell us the way of Salaat. In a similar way, the love of Imam Hussain (a.s.) is Aqeeda, but when the same love comes in practical form, it becomes Furoo (example Azadari) and has to be controlled by Shariah.
As far as matter of Owais-e-Qarani is concerned, he didn't broke his teeth's deliberately but infact it was emotional act and was not pre-planned thing rather than it was unplanned and very quick as he heard the news of the Prophet's broken teeth's. So if we suppose that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) didn't object on it then even we can't relate it to Zanjeer and Qama Zani's permission. Because (1) we do this Zanjeer and Qama Zani pre-planned and we do it every year and Owais-e-Qarani did it only once so we can't make habit of it. (2) we see no continuation of such practice after Owais-e-Qarani, hence proving that its not desirable or Mustahab thing otherwise other companions (Sahabas) would have done it or after that any of companions of Aimma would have done it when hearing martyrdom of any Imam.
Hence it is proved that we find no legal status of shedding blood deliberately and make a practice of it every year rather then we should try to find out the ways which Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) has done, don't forget after Imam Hussain (AS), we have the history of eight (8) Imams, its not less. Why sticks on the act of Owais-e-Qarani only hence try to prove baseless thing?
I REQUEST ALL THE MEMBERS TO READ BOTH CAREFULLY AND THINK IF REALLY POST OF MUHAMMAD IS A KHUTBA GIVEN BY Shaykh Zayd Salami in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008?
IF YES THEN WHO IS Shaykh Zayd Salami ? A SCHOLAR OR ANY AGENT READING POST PREPARED (IN 2002) BY DUSHMANAAN E ISLAM IN FRIDAY KHUTBA?
OR
THIS MAN TRYING TO MISGUIDE US BY TAKING NAME OF SHIA SCHOLAR Shaykh Zayd Salami?
IN FACT I DO NOT KNOW WHO IS Shaykh Zayd Salami..SO ALL IS POSSIBLE.
wassalam
Watch 'The Mukhtar Narrative / Mukhtar Nama' on Ask - a series narrating Mukhtar al-Thaqafi's revenge for Karbala.
- By BatoolM