MUSLIM REMAKE OF EMINEM LOSE YOURSELF

Our communities and daily lives are ridden with many unIslamic temptations and deviations. Yet plenty are practiced openly.
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MUSLIM REMAKE OF EMINEM LOSE YOURSELF

Postby Tayyaba » 16 Nov 2004, 21:34

gosh this is sooo pathetic...why do ppl wana spread Islam like this...

Anyone hear about these brothers? I'm not sure how long its been around, I came across this remake of Eminem's Lose Yourself .
check it out

http://www.freewebs.com/sonofthenile

this is like totally the wrong way to spread Islam

Title is Lose Yourself in the Masjid - Raef Haggag
Tayyaba Salim Kassam
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Postby *Fatema* » 09 Dec 2004, 19:28

i thin it makes no diffrence if its in both the music n some of the words r the saame n the ppl who r makin it might be tryin to take youth on the right path but its not true if we listen to it then any1 can think tht listenin to eminems songs r fine to i dont think there is a possibility on ppl goin to the right path
wat do u ppl think is it okay or not?
<*~*FaTeMa*~*>
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Postby shabbirh » 30 Dec 2004, 11:30

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Sister Tayyaba, I would have to disagree with your sentiments viz-a-vis Music and Islam. However, I will not do so irrationally, but will provide some explanation of what I am saying, insha Allah.

Firstly, it must be understood, that music, like any other Media Source, is a tool, nothing more nothing less, in that respect it is quite valid to compare music with a spanner, or a hammer, or even a car for that matter.

To suggest that Music is not a valid method for propogating Islam, is to close a very powerful door - give to us by Allah - for propogating the Truth.

Firstly, let us get a few things clarified.

While there are many people who go around suggesting to the masses that they do not listen to Music, generally it has been found that such people are the ones who listen to Music more than others, they have to constantly go and say "Music is bad", "Music is haram", simply to present themselves as hyper religious. This is quite sad, simply because it is the first step in hypocricy and allows the way to be paved for many other vices of the soul.

Now comming back to Music, as I mentioned it is a tool. Nothing more nothing less.

Like a car, or a glass, or a hammer, it can be used for good, and it can be used for bad, but as an entity in itself it is benign.

A glass, for example, can be used to drink water and hence quench one's thirst, however, it can also be filled with some alcoholic beverage and thereby intoxicate someone and hence be used negatively.

However, it is important to remember in all of this, that the actual glass is still neutral, to suggest that glass is bad and evil just because some moron chose to put alcohol in it and drink from it is to be unjust, the glass is an inanimate object, and can be used as a container for anything, something good - such as water, or something bad - such as alcohol.

It is important to understand this.

Music is no different, neither are movies. Let me now further elaborate on this.

Music is a tool that has considerable power in motivating people one way or another, it has long been used by various governments as a tool for motivating and promoting their messages to the people and beyond, every country has a national anthem. A national anthem is generally some poetry glorifying the country and asking a diety to keep the country safe, and it has been put to music to give it lasting appeal.

Granted, there are also people who put illicit activities into the form of poetry, and then to music, and create "pop" songs which take people towards negative activities such as illicit relationships, vice and crime - sadly something that play a large part in the lives of many of the youth and elders of our beloved Dar es-Salaam.

Now, my question is this, and it's very simple really. Why is it that people have a tendency to render Music haram at the first chance - but no-one ever says that poetry is haram? Indeed, Music without poetry is instrumental and hence permitted totally - a fact agreed on by almost every Marja' Taqleed - therefore, this by itself leads one to conclude that Music as an entity is benign, and NOT HARAM. It is however, what is done with that Music that causes problems.

For example, one could be watching a television program, and there is background music on that program, rousing music, but within the context of the program which is about - for example - cars or motorbikes (for example).

That is then totally benign, the music serves to provide atmosphere, and give the viewer a good experience about the car and it's capabilities.

However, there is another program, that uses either the same music or very similar music, which shows to people engaged in illicit relations, the music is the same, the context of the music is problematic.

In that case, tell me, does the music become haram, or is it the watching of that program haram because of what it is showing?

The answer is obvious.

Now onto poetry. In the songs that you have taken issue with, there are two sets of lyrics, in my opinion both sets of lyrics are sound, and have no real issue, since both sets of lyrics, both the original lyrics by Eminem, and those by Raef Haggag move people towards a positive mindset, niether of them talk about illicit activities (of any nature), but instead encourage one to not miss chances to do something to further themselves (in other words move towards perfection which is the goal of all humanity).

We, as Muslims, need to start to wise up and stop branding anything we don't understand as "Haram" - we should have musicians, actors (hell we've got enough people in the community who can act perfectly when they need to pull of some con or manipulate a situation), directors, writers, etc.

If one looks at Islamic Iran, or at Hizbullah in Lebanon, or even at the Righteous Islamic Resistance in Iraq, one can see that they have used Music to move forward their message, and given a positive image to Music, however, we still feel it better to wallow in our self-righteousness and consider that Music is haram, EVEN when it is utilizing a theme or tune that is well known, and people will remember to promote a positive trait.

I remember one time in England, there was a brother from our community at home, quite a senior brother, and we were watching TV, I was flicking the channels and came to MTV that was playing Sandstorm by Darude (an excellent instrumental track I might add), I paused on that track for a while, since I quite like it - and the brother immediately starting moaning and groaning and saying "Astaghfirullah" and "Tawba Tawba", etc, etc - even though the video was of wildlife - like animals in the savvanah, there was nothing at all haram about the track, and it was purely instrumental.

I laughed and flicked the channel through to al-Manar TV, which by sheer coincidence, was showing some news bulletins - but only as raw images, but had put Darude's Sandstorm as the backing track.

At this point that brother didn't say anything, since he was seeing Sayyed Khatemi(HA) (President of Iran), and Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) and various Islamic places - but the backing track was exactly the same.

I waited for that program to finish and asked him why he objected to the music on MTV but said nothing about the same Music on al-Manar.

He gave me an answer which I found so ludicras and stupid that I will never forget it. He said, that well on al-Manar it's allowed cuz it's a Muslim TV Station, and on MTV it's not allowed cuz MTV is haram.

I pressed him to give me more clarity, why was the same thing, the same same thing allowed in one place, and not in another, and he was silent, no real answer.

At that point I understood, that our "rejection" of Music is based on nothing more than ignorance and hypocricy, we listen to the same Music, but we reject it in public.

This was further re-inforced, when I found that one of the famous people in London who was on a campaign against pornography and music, and used to give speeches (probably still does I don't know), against these subjects, had one of the larges collections of pornography and music that I have seen at his own house.

I've even had some insane people in Dar es-Salaam, suggest to me that "Music is haram, I listen to it but it's haram" - very confusing really.

Anyways, this is become far too long, and I'll stop here, but maybe we can have a useful discussion on this.

In the mean while, anyone interested, can take a look at our Media Gallery on islamicdigest.net, which can be found at: http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61media/

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir
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Postby abuali » 30 Dec 2004, 20:00

Alaykum Salaam Shabbirh

Thank you for bringing up your views on this issue. I have a feeling many youths sub concsiously have the same view as what you have put down, but maybe feared to raise it.

Before I put down my opinion on this issue, may I inquire whether you have inquired with any Marja-e-taqleed regarding this issue? And if so, what was the answer and who was the Marja?

Now, my question is this, and it's very simple really. Why is it that people have a tendency to render Music haram at the first chance - but no-one ever says that poetry is haram? Indeed, Music without poetry is instrumental and hence permitted totally - a fact agreed on by almost every Marja' Taqleed - therefore, this by itself leads one to conclude that Music as an entity is benign, and NOT HARAM. It is however, what is done with that Music that causes problems.


In the above quote you mention that Music without poetry is permitted by almost every Marja'Taqleed. Unfortunately I have yet to come across any text of any Marja' Taqleed who permit any sort of Music except for War Music and Classical Music

Inshallah in my next post I shall elaborate further on my views regarding this issue. But I shall leave this post with some food for thought...

We all know that alcohol in small levels is not harmful and can even help to give warmth to the body and can act as medicine. Does that make taking small portions of alcohol ok? After all it is for a good reason, and therefore as an entity alcohol is benign too...unless taken in excess.....

Comments and criticisms are welcome
Last edited by abuali on 31 Dec 2004, 08:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yas » 30 Dec 2004, 22:15

The alcohol issue was something that bothered me for ages, until you realize that the Qur'an speaks of alcohol and gambling in saying that it has benefits AND losses, however the losses outweigh the benefits which is why it is presumably haraam. Aside from that, the fact that greater levels of alcohol are progressively needed to reach a particular level of intoxication makes it almost impossible to maintain "mild drinking"... my few cents. Tc.
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Postby abuali » 10 Jan 2005, 00:51

I came across the following, which I feel will help us understand better the stance of Islam on this issue

The extract below is from Aalim Network Archives
http://al-islam.org/organizations/aalim ... 00632.html

Assalamu 'alaykum
The following question was answered by Shaykh Mustafa Jaffer.

Salaams & Duas
Ummulbanin Merali - Moderator - 'Aalim Network
******************************************************************************

QUESTION:

I do taqleed of Agha Seestaani, and am wondering on the ruling concerning
the single 'I have no cannons that roar', that is being publicised by Yusuf
Islam presently. Although it is music, a lot of Muslims are saying that it
is acceptable to listen because of the nature and background of the
writing. Is this true, please help

ANSWER:

Music is music and it is haraam to listen to music. In Islam, the end does
not jutisy the means. A very basic principle in Islam is " LAA YUTAAULLAH
HAYTHU YU'SAA" - Allah cannot be obeyed if, in the process, a sin is
committed.

With Salaams and Duas

Mustafa Jaffer
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Postby shabbirh » 10 Jan 2005, 08:24

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

With respect, Mustafa Jaffer and Ummulbaneen Merali do not constitute anyone who can speak with authority on the fatawi of the Marja.

Ummulbaneen Merali is the same person who was going around telling everyone - until she was confronted in London and backed down like a cowering person - that the Islamic Resistance in Lebanon was terrorist group, that Khumaynist Islam was not valid and other stupid statements.

If you're going to bring a rebuttal by someone at least let it be credible.

As for Mustafa Jaffar, with respect, he's been going around telling kids that we can't have an Islamic Government until Imam Mahdi(AJ) returns and as soon as he returns everything will be fine and dandy!!

There is much more to the return of al-Hujjah(AJ) that that, and in his absence it is OUR DUTY to establish an Islamic Government.

Nevertheless;

The fatwa of Ayatullah al-Udhma Seestani(HA) viz-a-vis Music is NOT AS RIGID as described by Mustafa Jaffar, you can examine directly the fatwa, and it allows many types.

Either way, it is interpretations such as this one by Mustafa Jaffer that have let the community into it's insular and hypocritical state, on one hand we say it's haram, then we do it, then we say it's haram, we become schizophrenic, we then start to gamble, sleep around, have illicit affairs, etc, etc.

Guilt is a terrible thing, it would be more sensible and indeed Islamic to understand the potential of the media, drama, music, art, etc and use it for the betterment of the Ummah, for teaching our youth not to sleep around, for making sure that our sisters are chaste, for making sure that rich people don't demand sexual favours from poorer people in return for assistance, etc, etc.

Please try to understand.

It would be more useful rather than just posting random statements condemning music to take what I have written, and refute it (if possible) with logic, intelligence and islamic proofs. Random statements by random people simply indicates a need to rely on dogma, and frankly, Islam is against dogma and dogmatic tendencies.

It is important to realise this.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir
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Postby abuali » 10 Jan 2005, 10:22

Alaykum Salaam

Thank you for your comments.

Both of the situations you have mentioned about Ummulbaneen Merali and Mustafa Jaffer relate to opinions and not jurispundence issues.

As you are aware, opinions can be different and no one can actually say 100% that one opinion is correct as opposed to another.

As far as jurispundence is concerned, there is a fine line as to what is haraam and halaal.

I have examined the fatwas of Aga Sistani, and I am afraid I find them quite rigid on Music. As I mentioned earlier in my other post. Please do highlight what part of his fatwa makes you think he allows music?

I will also reiterate my question which I posed in my earlier post:-

Before I put down my opinion on this issue, may I inquire whether you have inquired with any Marja-e-taqleed regarding this issue? And if so, what was the answer and who was the Marja?


Your opinion below about what happens is sadly true.

Either way, it is interpretations such as this one by Mustafa Jaffer that have let the community into it's insular and hypocritical state, on one hand we say it's haram, then we do it, then we say it's haram, we become schizophrenic, we then start to gamble, sleep around, have illicit affairs, etc, etc


However, I feel its wrong to blame it to specific people with naming names.

Hypocritical nature is as old as man himself, and even the greatest being on earth ever, the Holy Prophet had to encounter them...an army of them. So do you think he was doing something wrong or making wrong interpretations (God forbid)?

Returning to refuting by logic, Alcohol is as common as water these days. So can we say that alcohol can also become a medium which to use for teaching the community.

'Muslims' who do go to bars (and not neccesarily drink) or those who watch TV during an alcohol commercial or those who pass the streets where alcohol is advertised and sold or those who actually do drink it.

Or even to attract non-muslims to convert to a 'liberal' religion.

Two question that I feel is very relevant at this moment to pose: -

Out of all the millions and billions of songs that are out there, how many can you count which you feel are appropriate according to your opinion?

Out of all the 'artists' of music that are out there, how many would you be comfortable with if they visited your home, and you wouldnt mind if he/she would be our youths idols?

The fact of the matter is, Islam is a religion for the individual as well as a religion for humanity. When there is more harm than good that an entity causes, Islam forbids it. It may be that that entity may not be harmful to me at all, and can even bring me advantage as an individual. But because the general effect is more harm, in the interest of society as opposed to an individual, it is forbidden.

However, to reach to a definite answer, it should be enough to acknowledge that Aga Sistani has termed music haraam except for certain types which I mentioned in an earlier post. And the exceptions certainly dont include music that tries to promote good behaviour or for that matter music that tries to promote Islam.
Last edited by abuali on 13 Jan 2005, 01:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby shabbirh » 10 Jan 2005, 10:26

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

I would like to ask a question, please advise your opinion on these three items:

1/ http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61/content/view/1662/53/

2/ http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61/content/view/1663/53/

3/ http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61/content/view/998/53/

Please advise whether they are valid or invalid, and why. In some detail if possible. (This is open to everyone on the board).

Thank you.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir
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Postby abuali » 13 Jan 2005, 01:09

Alaykum Salaam,

I am sorry for not having posted earlier.

The message of the presentation is a very important message. (I have seen the first two briefly, havent yet viewed the third). Wilayat is the basis of what makes the Shia shias.

As you may have noticed, my answers are usualy in the form of another question. I am very sorry for not answering your question directly, but I feel that by using these questions, my points shall be better understood.

1. If these presentations, did not include any music backgrounds, and instead just poetry like Munajaat...would the quality or weight of the message it seeks to deliver have decreased?

2. As for the claim that music can be used for propogation causes, do we think that those who would see this presentation would do so just because it has music? In other words, would someone see this presentation just like he switches to MTV to listen to a song?

3. Does the philosophy of 'the end satisfies the means' (i.e use of any means, whether right or wrong, is ok, as long as the end result is good) have any validity in Islam?

As for the validity of these presentations, as I said, their message is totally valid ... however, some of the music used, I FEEL, is being of suitable quality for the gatherings of amusement and of immorality. (I am referring to the music notes being played in between the poetry)

And it is this criteria that Aga Sistani says is 'The separating limit' of lawful and unlawful music.

Allah knows best.

For arguments sake, lets say that it is lawful and allowed. Once again, my question is, does such an important and weighty message of Wilayat (and for that matter any message about Islam) which is pure NEED the help of music to be propogated.

If I were to see the presentation, I would not see it just because it has music. Would anyone else do it just for the music?

My point is, maybe if it is valid (Allah knows best) it still is not a mass propogation tool.
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Postby shabbirh » 13 Jan 2005, 11:32

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

On what basis does one consider Music "suitable quality for the gatherings of amusement and of immorality"?

Since it is obvious that Music can be used either positively or negatively, does that then not prove and emphasise further the benign nature of Music as an entity? It is neutral enough to be used for good and bad, much like a car, a glass, a chair, etc

It is a tool - essentially a tool cannot be classed as haram or halal, it is what happens with said tool.

You cannot declare that a glass is haraam or najis randomly, it is only when it is used for alcoholic beverages that it becomes haram/najis. As an entity in itself it is benign.

If more of our youth were able to leverage their talents in music, arts, drama, media, etc then we would be in a stronger position to combat the growing tide of "haram" music that leads away from the good and toward the bad.

It's all very well saying that this is haram and this is halal, but you have to provide an alternative. Sure we can sit with our heads firmly in the sand, and say it'll be fine, let's just say music is haram randomly and it'll all be fine, but it wont - the state of the community today, and the myriad of vices floating around - illicit affairs, gambling issues, random flirting, sleeping around, wife swapping, etc, etc are off shoots from a historical tendency to carry guilt.

If a person from childhood is told X is haram without any valid reasoning or without being provided an alternative, then chances are very high that they will succumb to that - the classic forbidden fruit syndrome - however, since they are indoctrinated into believing that said thing is haraam, they will do it undercover "chupi chupi ne" (to quote a pun).

Net result of such activity is that the burden of guilt becomes less and less over time, and they become used to carrying that guilt that it doesn't seem heavy, and so they get lured unwittingly or wittingly into more and more serious issues.

That is why it is important not to say in a dogmatic fashion that X is haram and Y is haram. Islam is fundamentally opposed to dogma. Fundamentally at it's core it is opposed to dogma.

Islam encourages us to think.

People suggest that Music as an entity is haraam. Okay. Prove it - and please don't quote me that silly and totally inaccurate scientifically book published by WABIL about Music that book is a pile of rubbish and seeks only to create and re-inforce the dogmatic nature of the belief of some muslims.

In Quran, the words that many people use to justify their haramisation of Music are the words used for vain words - inane banter, pointless discourse, such a mindless and down right evil gossip and fitneh mongering.

Why the silence on that sort of vice - which has caused far more serious problems? Why the vocal condemnation of music which is essentially benign it can be used for good or bad.

There is no concrete hadeeth that testifies to the haramification of Music. Not one. The bulk of the reasoning behind the haramification of Music is cultural and dogmatic and based on the content found in contemporary and historical music (both western and eastern).

If an alternative Music genre was presented, it would be and in fact has proven itself as being an extremely powerful tool.

I can also guarentee that the words of the presentation - if one is totally honest - are strengthened by the presence of the Islamic Songs in the background. Without them sure the presentations would be good - but they would be lacking in something.

Someone prove to me that Music is haram, and how to deduce whether music is "suitable quality for the gatherings of amusement and of immorality"? What makes a peice of music suitable for such gatherings?

Also, by implication, it is known that in some "gatherings of ammusement and immorality" people play backing tracks of quran recitations and do immoral activities - such as eyeing up other girls (or guys the problem is not exclusive to the men - women are jsut as much at fault), thinking immoral thoughts of someone else?

What defines immoral? What are the boundaries?

Also why is it that if Music is so evil and nasty, why is it that the Marja' hasn't turned around said that Music is haram. Period.

Also, why is that that in Islamic Iran, there are concerts and operatic performaces? Passion plays even, music bands, etc, as well as with Hizbullah in Lebanon, you can hear some here:

http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61media/

(Look for Firqat al-Isra, Firqat al-Jawaad, etc)

Why are Ulema allowing such "a major haraam"????

Firstly define Music - as understood by the Marja' - is it just the tunes? Do the lyrics play a part? What part is exactly haram the rhythm? Tones? Harmonies? etc? and WHY - more and most importantly WHY??

To simply suggest it's haram - and stick to it without any basis - is to adhere to dogma. Dogma is irrational and has NO place in Islam. FACT. :)

It is known that in the early days of the conversion of the Indians who went on to be Khoja Muslims (though the case is the same for all converts from the Indian Sub-continent), Ulema decided to prevent Music and such activities from the new Muslims to create a division and prevent a reversion since the conversions were generally not based on logical thought, but were based on emotional rhetoric and in some cases financial gain.

The Ulema at that time needed to create a situation where the Muslims (new Muslims) would be distanced from the cultural aspects of their families that were of Hindu extraction, and hence since Music was a major part of the culture - they closed that door firmly.

However, historically this was never checked, and after the first generation passed away there wasn't a sanity check on the various prohibitions that were made as a protection mechenism for a short period.

There is more here than meets the eye - how can a system - Islam - which is inherently anti-Dogmatic - adhere to mindless dogma regarding music, drama, media and the arts in general? With justifications such as "Yazeed played a musical instrument hence it is haraam" - what rubbish!! Who is Yazeed to decide what is haram or not? So he used perfume - does that render perfume haram? He wore clothes - are clothes now haraam?

We need to rise above the dogma - rise above the DOGMA - the dogma will kill us!!

Bears thinking about.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir
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Postby abuali » 13 Jan 2005, 22:33

Alaykum Salaam

It is not OBVIOUS AT ALL to me, that music can be used both positively and negatively. All my posts and the reasons I have given have given me enough reason to believe that there MAY BE some advantages to SOME TYPES of Music...but there DEFINITELY IS MORE DISADVANTAGE in Music then there is Advantage.

As a comparison, I gave the example of how alcohol can be used for several advantages, but since its disadvantages are greater, then it is haraam. So why dont we ask, whats the reasoning behind Alcohol being haraam? Isnt that a DOGMA as well? I mean, I can use it as medicine, or as a source of heat if I am in the ice fields in russia...

Hence I feel comparison of Music to entities like cars, or glasses is incorrect. Comparison of Music to alcohol or gambling is more accurate, as alcohol and gambling both can be advantageous but are still haraam.

I also asked the following two questions to give a glimpse of how negative music is: -

Out of all the millions and billions of songs that are out there, how many can you count which you feel are appropriate according to your opinion?

Out of all the 'artists' of music that are out there, how many would you be comfortable with if they visited your home, and you wouldnt mind if he/she would be our youths idols?


The terms "suitable quality for the gatherings of amusement and of immorality" has been used by Aga Sistani. As far as my understanding goes, (which is quite shallow ), if the tune can be danced to, then it is suitable for the gatherings of amusement and of immorality. Allah knows best.

Your opinion about this can differ. The best way to clarify it is to send a question to the office of Aga Sistani.

Personally, for me, it is more than enough to believe Music is haraam if my Marja-e-Taqleed says so. The reasons as to why i find this VERY RATIONAL are: -

1. Taqleed does actually require to follow the rulings of ones marja, regardless of whether one likes it or not. So if I am a smoker, and my marja issues a fatwa that smoking is haraam, I have to stop, unless I discover that there is another Marja who seems more knowledgable than the one I am currently following, and he allows smoking on say basis of Makruh.

2. Marja-e-Taqleed are MOST definitely more well versed with issues of Jurispundence and the rulings from the Quran that I am. Hence I would be foolish to use my own judgements about an issue contrary to what the marja does, unless I am atleast as qualified as he is. (which would mean that I would need to study full time issues of jusrispundence for more than 40 yrs).

In other words, I would not be doing justice to myself, If i became sick and despite not being a qualified doctor, prescribed medicine to myself. IT would definitely be wiser for me to see a doctor. And if after seeing a doctor, his opinion differs from mine, then I would most definitely follow his opinion and advice. Because he is better placed to do that job as a professional. The same applies to Marja.

However, for the reason of discussion, I shall try to present my own reasons.

And just to clarify, a tool whether used for halaal or haraam does not itself become haraam or halaal. It is the action that becomes halaal or haraam. If the numerous Marja agreed to your point that Music is just a tool, then Music would not be haraam. But the fact that IT IS, speaks for itself.

As to your point below: -

If more of our youth were able to leverage their talents in music, arts, drama, media, etc then we would be in a stronger position to combat the growing tide of "haram" music that leads away from the good and toward the bad.


I would answer with a question that I have already posed earlier:-

'Would anyone just go to see the presentation, ONLY and ONLY because it has Music playing in the background?'

and

'If we created a million such presentations, would those who listened to the 'haraam' music shift over to listen to these presentations because they have music and so they dont need to listen to any other music?

It's all very well saying that this is haram and this is halal, but you have to provide an alternative. Sure we can sit with our heads firmly in the sand, and say it'll be fine, let's just say music is haram randomly and it'll all be fine, but it wont - the state of the community today, and the myriad of vices floating around - illicit affairs, gambling issues, random flirting, sleeping around, wife swapping, etc, etc are off shoots from a historical tendency to carry guilt.


Why do we have to provide an alternative???????

When something is Haraam, it is haraam. Yes, there is no compulsion in religion...as in, I can not go into someones house and tell him to stop listening to music in his house, but that doesnt mean it is not haraam. What is Haraam will remain Haraam whether I listen to it or I dont.

Providing alternatives just because EVERYONE seems to listen to it, is like playing Diplomacy. We know its wrong, but just to please all those who enjoy it, lets give them an alternative :!:

Everyone has the burden of their own good deeds and sins. So if anyone does it 'chupi chupi ne' thats a matter between him and his God, for he has already been warned that Shaytan is his open enemy.

illicit affairs, gambling issues, random flirting, sleeping around, wife swapping, etc, etc are off shoots from a historical tendency to carry guilt.


What you have mentioned are not necessarily as a result of guilt. Allah (swt) has given everyone free will. And I dont think 'free will' would be 'free will' if a human was soo weak as to fall prey to his own guilt and start committing sins. To become afraid of other evils and to try and curb it by allowing one evil, so that people can have some 'fun' and enjoynment is evil in itself. It will not solve anything. That is my opinion.

And as I metnioned earlier, even if we are able to produce as many presentations like the ones you posted so that they equal the number of music videos of the Haraam kind (which is logically impossible, because the sales of the haraam kind and their income will always surpass the sales of the presentations, if at all we manage to sell them), this is no way is a guarantee that those who do listen to the haraam music will suddenly have a change of heart and shift to such presentations.

Apart from the above, several scientific reasons have also surfaced highlighting some disadvantages of Music. These are those kind of disadvantages that the limited knowledge of Science has revealed. Who knows what kind of negative effects Music has on the soul. I think some of these reasons have been posted in the Music forum.

As far as the several hadeeths regarding Music are concerned, about which you have said : -

There is no concrete hadeeth that testifies to the haramification of Music. Not one. The bulk of the reasoning behind the haramification of Music is cultural and dogmatic and based on the content found in contemporary and historical music (both western and eastern).


I am afraid I would not be the right person at commenting as I am not a professional at Islamic History. Therefore I would tend to rely on the view of the professional who has delved deeper into the subject to verify whether the hadeeths testifies to Music being Haraam and whether the hadeeths are valid.

If an alternative Music genre was presented, it would be and in fact has proven itself as being an extremely powerful tool.


Please give me any example of such a success story, as you have mentioned above.

I can also guarentee that the words of the presentation - if one is totally honest - are strengthened by the presence of the Islamic Songs in the background. Without them sure the presentations would be good - but they would be lacking in something.


Being TOTALLY HONEST, I personally did not feel at all that the presence of MUSIC int eh background STRENGHTEHENED the message of the presentation. Infact, I felt that the MUSIC in the background was detrimental to the MESSAGE OF WILAYAT itself. I lost my concentration on what the presentation was about, due to the tunes of Music.

I have nothing against the Islamic 'SONG', but the Islamic 'SONG" could have still been there, without ANY MUSIC.

And frankly speaking, I feel that the presentation would not lack anything if the music was not there, and that the Music does not add to its value at all.

Also, by implication, it is known that in some "gatherings of ammusement and immorality" people play backing tracks of quran recitations and do immoral activities - such as eyeing up other girls (or guys the problem is not exclusive to the men - women are jsut as much at fault), thinking immoral thoughts of someone else?


Such people are then sinning. because while the Holy Quran is recited, it demands utmost concentration on the recitation, and even talkng or diverting attention becomes a sin. What about using it as background to such gatherings and immoral activities.

What I fail to understand is, how does this strenghthen your point as to Music not being haraam?

Also why is it that if Music is so evil and nasty, why is it that the Marja' hasn't turned around said that Music is haram. Period.


As I have mentioned in atleast two of my earlier posts, the marja HAVE SAID THAT MUSIC IS HARAAM, except certain exceptions. You still have to show me a ruling of a Marja that has allowed music for the propogation of good behaviour or for that matter the use of any kind of music in the propogation of Islam. I personally, have yet to come across any such rulings.

Also, why is that that in Islamic Iran, there are concerts and operatic performaces? Passion plays even, music bands, etc, as well as with Hizbullah in Lebanon, you can hear some here:


To this, it is also true that in 'Islamic Iran' prostitution is rampant, and so is the consumption of Alcohol. That doesnt mean that prostitution and alcohol are not haraam does it? Islam is not what Muslims do...its about Islam and what it says Muslims should do.

If something happens in Iran, does not mean that it is halaal.

The Ulema are not an Islamic Police, they are spiritual leaders. They dont go and punish people who are doing haraam. They provide guidance. If I follow the guidance or not is my decision, for I alone will be answerable for my actions.

Firstly define Music - as understood by the Marja' - is it just the tunes? Do the lyrics play a part? What part is exactly haram the rhythm? Tones? Harmonies? etc? and WHY - more and most importantly WHY??

To simply suggest it's haram - and stick to it without any basis - is to adhere to dogma. Dogma is irrational and has NO place in Islam. FACT.


I have delt with this ^ issue in the begining of this post.


It is known that in the early days of the conversion of the Indians who went on to be Khoja Muslims (though the case is the same for all converts from the Indian Sub-continent), Ulema decided to prevent Music and such activities from the new Muslims to create a division and prevent a reversion since the conversions were generally not based on logical thought, but were based on emotional rhetoric and in some cases financial gain.

The Ulema at that time needed to create a situation where the Muslims (new Muslims) would be distanced from the cultural aspects of their families that were of Hindu extraction, and hence since Music was a major part of the culture - they closed that door firmly.

However, historically this was never checked, and after the first generation passed away there wasn't a sanity check on the various prohibitions that were made as a protection mechenism for a short period.


The above is known???? I have never heard about it! Please provide references.

It sounds like a made up story, for Islam does not allow in making haraam what is halaal and making halaal what is haraam.

And, what convinces me even more that this story is fabricated, is that our current Ulemas have not said anything about it. Once again, they are definitely in a better position than me, in deciding on these issues.

"Yazeed played a musical instrument hence it is haraam"


Who is claiming that Music is just haraam because Yazeed played it????

(As a side note :The first Musical instrument was invented by the evil son of Prophet Adam and Shaytan together after Prophet Adam passed away so as to be used as a tool for rejoicing his passing away. - iF someone has any sources for this info, please share)

Allah (swt), makes haraam for us things which are harmful to us only.

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