Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Discuss general religious issues that affect all of us in our daily lives.

What do you feel about the cameras installed in the ladies imambargah?

I dont see any problem with them even if men can use them to see the ladies
0
No votes
As long as the media room team is reliable, they wont abuse the cameras. So no problem
6
29%
I am ok with one camera fixed on the mimbar accessible only by the ladies from the ladies side. Anything more is unacceptable
10
48%
Why have cameras in the ladies side at all. No cameras, no opportunity given to shaitan to encourage abuse
5
24%
 
Total votes: 21
User avatar
Insaan
Ask Novice
Ask Novice
Posts: 220
Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 23:18

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby Insaan » 02 Jan 2014, 17:13

so much of DRAMA.. Cant you all calm yourselves
This is a guest account that can be used by anyone. If you want to post views, questions or replies anonymously, use this account.

Username: Insaan
Password: passask
User avatar
Insaan
Ask Novice
Ask Novice
Posts: 220
Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 23:18

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby Insaan » 02 Jan 2014, 17:14

moonBeam What sort of Improvement can you find.. When there is no fault :D
This is a guest account that can be used by anyone. If you want to post views, questions or replies anonymously, use this account.

Username: Insaan
Password: passask
User avatar
Insaan
Ask Novice
Ask Novice
Posts: 220
Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 23:18

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby Insaan » 12 Feb 2014, 16:11

(bismillah)
Brothers and sisters in islam.... (salam)
I went in the media room once like a week ago I saw the people in the media room doing their job...they were not looking at ladies through the cameras please this is all false hasin and his team are trying to get hold of the media room inorder to control it by spreading false rumours please stop all this
This is a guest account that can be used by anyone. If you want to post views, questions or replies anonymously, use this account.

Username: Insaan
Password: passask
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby abuali » 14 Feb 2014, 16:12

(bismillah)
(salam)

abuali wrote:We met with the Hon. President in person and he agreed to arrange a meeting with the media room to discuss a way forward to solve the issue and address the concerns.


Below are the minutes to the meeting:

MANAGING COMMITTEE MEETING FOR PROTECTION OF HIJAB WITH RESPECT TO MEDIA ROOM FACILITIES
MINUTES OF THE MEETING
Venue:
Conference Room of the Jamaat Office

Date and Time:
January 7th 2014 at 7:45 p.m.

Managing Committee Members present:
Br. Azim Dewji (Vice President)
Br. Zahir Somji
Br. Murtaza Habib (Treasurer) – joined later

Media Room Committee Members Present:
Sis. Nasim Hameer (Chair Lady)
Br. Sadiq Alishan
Br. Murtaza Lalji
Br. Muzaffar Lalji
Sis. 1
Sis. 2


Other brothers and members of the Jamaat Present:
Br. Hasin Shakur
Br. MuhamadHussain Alidina
Br. Miqdaad Kassam
Br. Imran Hameer

Ad Hoc Invitee:
Br. Haider Gulamali

Reason for meeting (Agenda) as per prior meeting with Br. Shiraz Walji (President of Jamaat):
  • • To review the salient features of the risk to hijab associated with the current setup.
  • • To dialog on the benefits, drawbacks and challenges in the implementation of the plan of action agreed upon in prior meetings with office bearers, media room members, concerned members, and Sheikh Alidina and to review the progress thereof.
  • • To gain comprehensive understanding and have a dialectically oriented resolution of the perceived setbacks in accordance with the wisdom of the Islamic Shari’ah and to submit to the solution that is most congruent with the rulings of Islam.
  • • To act for the best interests of our community by acknowledging and rectifying shortfalls.


    Announcements:
  • • Br. Azim announced that the discussions held should remain between the members present and not discussed outside with other Jamaat members.
  • • Br. Azim welcomed a guest, Br. Haider Gulamali, to be present in the meeting.

Topics of Discussion and Discussions:
1
Recapitulation of events and concerns raised about vulnerability of hijab in regard to the setup of Media Room facilities

  • • Br. Hasin mentioned that the vulnerabilities are still present after two years of ongoing discussions. The matter arose when Dr. Muhammad Shabbir witnessed ladies paying respects to the Zaree via the cameras visible in the media room screens. A media room member also invited Sheikh Alidina to observe the Asraaf of niyaz by spying on our brothers using the cameras of the media room. Meetings were held in the presence of Sheikh Alidina, Sheikh Thaqalayn, Br. Sadiq Alishan, Br. Mohammedraza. Panjwani and Br. Hasin in which the potential for abuse was acknowledge and agreed upon by all and three step solutions was discussed. Sheikh Alidina also recommended that an inspector be appointed by Jamaat to pay surprise visits to the media room while the three step solution is being considered and implemented.

2
Revisiting action plan made in prior meetings


  • • Br. Hasin mentioned that the three step action plan was acknowledged in the presence of Sheikh Alidina, who recommended the same if it was feasible, and others in the light of the acknowledged risks; and these steps were as follows:
    i. Short-Term:Power cut-off switch to be installed in ladies imambargah under lock and key in a glass compartment with a light to denote when active
    ii. Medium-Term: Training of a ladies team to handle media room equipment independently
    iii. Long-Term:The separation of the media rooms, its transmission systems, hardware and operations.
    iv. Sheikh Alidina proposed that an inspector be appointed to pay surprise visits to the media room. He added that such a person cannot be anyone. He has to be someone with IT and Technical know-how in order to be able to detect any signs of abuse.
  • • Br. Azim requested media room team to inform us on the state of implementation of all the above.
  • • Br. Sadiq responded that the following was the state of implementation:
    i. Switch was already installed
    ii. Ladies team was being trained
    iii. Inspector was already in place
    iv. Separation has not been worked on. Instead, ladies team will fully control the media room in the future both for ladies and for gents programs.
  • • Upon further query, it was pointed out that:
    i. Switch was installed within the media room. This was insufficient as the recommendation was to have the switch installed within the ladies imambargah.
    ii. Ladies team was being trained since Mahe Ramadhan 2013 and other ladies have been trained since the inception of the media room a decade ago.
    iii. The said inspector has been an employee of the media room team for some time and cannot be considered as independent. Nothing was known of his technical ability to detect abuse.
    iv. Br. Sadiq mentioned that they will need to train the ladies team for at least one more year before they are ready to take over the media room fully.
  • • Upon presenting these concerns and recommending that the original proposed solution was doubtlessly better, Br. Azim mentioned that not everything can be done Hasins’ way and other things need to be taken into account.


3
Review of performance to date and pending items:

  • • Br. Azim commended Br. Sadiq for performance on meeting the first two objectives of training a team of ladies and installing a cut-off switch in such a short time and asked about how long it shall take to train the team of ladies to the point of complete independence.
  • • Br. Sadiq mentioned that it would take another year to train the five girls.
  • • Br. Azim mentioned that while the separation of the media rooms shall be done, it is a long way from now and the current achievement should be commended while the separation shall be postponed for a couple of months.
  • • Br. Hasin mentioned that not only is the risk still present but the implementation of the cut-off switch is not as per agreed and is not satisfactory as it still is in the media room and out of public view, and the public needs to know when the cameras are switched on so that they can decide whether to maintain hijab.
  • • Br. Hasin asked about the location of the switch where Br. Azim said that only the Chairlady and the girls of the media room are supposed to know. Br. Azim also said that only the Chairlady Nasimbai has the key and therefore sole-access to the switch. Nasimbai confirmed the same.
  • • Br. Hasin questioned about the approach where it is not in the public’s view where the public can verify.
  • • An idea of installing lights was presented by Br. Azim such that lights should be displayed in the ladies imambarghah when the cameras are switched on.
  • • Br. MuhammadHussain mentioned that, the supervisory role is also still insufficient as his mother once visited the media room only to find unsupervised girls there. Br. Hasin added that Sheikh Alidina had also observed the absence of any ladies supervising the gents during the khushali of Imam Redha (as).
  • • Br. Hasin asked the sisters if they could guarantee abuse did not take place prior to their joining in 2013 and during situations when ladies, for one reason or another, were not present to supervise performance of the media room gents team with regards to this issue.
  • • Sisters mentioned that they were and still are satisfied.
  • • Br. Hasin mentioned that the performance is neither as per the recommendations nor satisfactory and mentioned that just like the risks were not seenand the safety was taken for granted in the previous times until they were brought to the attention of the media room team and slight changes were implemented, so it is in the current situation where the risks are there and foreseeable to the concerned members and can only be addressed conclusively with the separation of the media room and the correct implementation of the cut-off switch immediately in the interim.
  • • Br. Hasin added that the appointment of an independent inspector that is not employed by the Media Room/Managing Committee and thus not subjected to it has also not been accomplished.
  • • Br. Hasin requested a dialog and clarification on the reasons and challenges faced by the Managing committee in implementing the plan as agreed and in separating the media rooms as the last step.
  • • Br. Hasin mentioned that without dialog and open discussion, the challenges cannot be comprehensively and conclusively discussed.

4
The balancing act between Trust and the extent of systemic security.

  • • Br. Azim said that Hasins’ and other concerned member’ responsibility of alerting has been fulfilled and the matter should now be laid in the hands of the Managing committee and the media room team should be trusted.
  • • Sis. Nasim is and has always been satisfied with the performance of the media room and believes that she and the team should be trusted.
  • • Br. Hasin: This is not a personal attack on the trustworthiness of the media room members but this is an objective request since:
    i. abuse of the system is possible in the many ways offered by technology,
    ii. human controls is not sufficient for the foregoing reason and good technical controls will safeguard our community from this vulnerability now and in the future times and for future teams who may not know the specific details about various controls and risks.
  • • Br. Haider Gulamali acknowledged the good intentions of Br. Hasin and members who are concerned and said that indeed not only are men supposed to observe hijab of their eyes but so are women; however, the risk shall still be present even if the media rooms are completely separate and therefore the Jamaat members shall ultimately have to resort to trust either way; this being the case, the Jamaat members should trust the Managing committee with respect to this matter and the current modus operandi, after all the team members would not have been hired if they were not trustworthy.
  • • Br. Imran acknowledged the point raised by the guest about requirement of hijab to be maintained by men and women both and mentioned that the Quran states that both men and women need to lower their gaze. Br. Imran mentioned that this is the reason why the media rooms of the men and women need to be separate.
  • • Br. MuhammadHussain affirmed the same

5
Fiduciary and Islamic obligations of the Managing committee and the voluntary acceptance of responsibilities:

  • • Br. Azim mentioned that the Managing committee and media room members are serving as volunteers and this should indicate purity of intention.
  • • Br. Hasin mentioned that the concerned jamaat members are also voluntary participants of the Jamaat and being a Jamaat members requires him to continue volunteering and directing himself to persist and spend time and effort towards a just conclusion of this matter.

6
Managing Committees’ stance on the reasonable degree of Amr BilMa’aroof:

  • • Br. Azim mentioned that Br. Hasins’ and present members’ Islamic responsibility is done by way of alerting and that they are no longer responsible in the eyes of God and taking this matter further is not good. Br. Azim mentioned that when we give Khums money to our Marj’ia, we trust him to act responsible and thus the Managing Committee should be trusted in this matter.
  • • Br. Imran asked whether the separation of the room is considered a good deed by Br. Azim, whereby Br. Azim confirmed.
  • • Br. Imran mentioned that the Qur’aan recommends rushing towards performance of good deeds and questioned why the separation is not being done sooner rather than later.
  • • Br. Azim mentioned that reciting Namaz is a good deed but if we rush to do it then mistakes can be made during Wudhoo and therefore it should not be rushed.

7
Transparency of current setup and permission for independent technical audit of the hardware and software systems so as to verify and clarify on concerns on privacy of hijab and loopholes for misuse:

  • • Br. Imran mentioned that he would like to have the manuals of the systems and that he would like to visit the media room to do a systems audit of the Hardware and Software, including firewall, to identify and verify the concerns and risks which can then be formally documented and presented for verification and analysis.
  • • Sis. 1 mentioned that Br. Imran need not check the firewall as that is meant for preventing viruses.
  • • Br. Imran mentioned that given the presence of internet access in the media room, system intrusion/access from outside the media room is a possibility which presents a risk.
  • • Br. Azim refused to give permission and mentioned that the media room team needs to be trusted.
  • • Br. Hasin mentioned that Br. Imran should be allowed to audit using his technical background and this is an opportunity to clarify on the matter objectively and conclusively.
  • • Br. Azim maintained that permission shall not be granted.
8
Consolidating views and decisions in regard to the way forward



Post-meeting comments, by members, about meeting:

Br. Imran would like to mention that the analogies given by Br. Azim, namely the khums analogy and the analogy about making mistakes during wudhoo while rushing toward salaat, are neither fitting nor appropriate.

In the case of entrusting Khums money, every individual has the freedom to make that decision and can choose to distribute Khums money independently whereas in this case of the media room facilities, members are not even aware of the vulnerability of their hijab and do not even appear to know about the risks, do not have the liberty to improve the situation and are not empowered as community members to investigate and exercise intelligence as symbiotic participants of the community and as well-wishers interested in the welfare and success of their brothers and sisters. Members must thus be fully informed of the details and their rights before this comparison can become valid.

With regards to the analogy of making mistakes in wudhoo while rushing for Salaat, it must be noted that Wudhoo is in itself a good deed, and performing a good deed well is a good deed also; therefore, one must rush to perform it and perform it well., and then proceed onwards and rush towards Salaat all the while noting, in all cases of performing a good deed, that rushing towards a good deed is not the same as performing it in a rushed manner.
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby abuali » 14 Feb 2014, 16:24

Salaam Alaykum

Attached is the resolution submitted to Jamaat for tabling at the AGM tonight at 9pm.

Please do attend the AGM so as to present your views and/or propose and support the resolution.
Attachments
mobileimage.jpg
mobileimage.jpg (130.44 KiB) Viewed 457 times
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby abuali » 14 Feb 2014, 16:30

Noting that the denial by the Managing Committee to grant us (members) permission to assist by giving us access and permission to perform a systems audit of the media room, we have requested them again to grant us this permission via email:

Dear Azimbhai

Salaam Alaykum

We hereby reiterate our polite request to be given access to the media room at the earliest so that we can inspect the hardware and software with a view to give you a report on the weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

Together with the expertise of the media room team, we can assist in reducing and eliminating the risk to the hijab of the ladies by identifying vulnerabilities and working together to find solutions.

We believe your refusal to give us access to the media room when we requested the same during the meeting on 7 January 2014 was a quick-response without much thought. We would like to remind you that access to the room is our right.

We would also like to point that a refusal to give access to the media room can be misinterpreted as an act to cover-up the weaknesses and vulnerabilities currently present in the media room systems. This would be to the detriment of the community at large and something that we would like to avoid.

We trust you shall arrange the same without any further delay.

With Salaams


Hasin, Imran, Muhammadhussein, Miqdaad et al
Fatimah Zahra Karim
Ask Senior
Ask Senior
Posts: 437
Joined: 28 Oct 2004, 17:30

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby Fatimah Zahra Karim » 31 Mar 2014, 22:54

Any reply?
If Allah assists you, there is none that can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, then who is there that can assist you after Him? And on Allah should the believers rely (Qur'an 3:160)
User avatar
Insaan
Ask Novice
Ask Novice
Posts: 220
Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 23:18

Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby Insaan » 17 Jun 2014, 11:23

@abuali Is there any update on this issue?
This is a guest account that can be used by anyone. If you want to post views, questions or replies anonymously, use this account.

Username: Insaan
Password: passask

Return to “General Religious Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests