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[Fatimah Zahra Karim]

If passwords are hackable, then doors are breakable, keys are duplicate-able and sharable. Same analogy bro. And for all these to happen, we are assuming that the men in charge of the media room are ACTIVELY trying to sneak a peak at the ladies, which I find difficult to fathom. If the men are of this character, they should not be trusted with the job in the first place. Besides, there are better places to go if all they wanna do is check out women. Some as easy as clicking on a website.

[qamar]

i see your point

but if we can put our faith entirely on people not to abuse a technology that can easily be abused then no need for passwords either

as per your assumption that no one would actively seek to take a sneak-peak (by stealing the password) then surely they will not be tempted to plug in the ladies camera to take a sneak peak? but u yourself said you had been told about such actions

what do you make of that?

the differences between a password with no physical separation of systems and media room housed inside the ladies imambarga

1. password can easily be hacked without attracting any attention and be used and abused without attracting attention since it involves stealing by use of software or hardware and no one is the wiser
2. breaking a door will easily attract attention and therefore defeat the purpose
3. duplicate keys are a risk but for a man to be able to use them he will have to get in the ladies imambarga while ladies are all over the place - a difficult task i presume

[Insaan]

another solution let all ladies wear hijab when in the mosque

[abuali]

Sr. FZK & Br. Qamar

I think the most important thing is that both of you, like most of us, want something to be done about the cameras.

The what and how can be sorted later. The big question is, why is the media room team and/or jamaat not paying any heed to these serious concerns?

[abuali]

abuali - pls send out email and add the link to the top of this discussion

Sorry for the late action on my part.

Will start working on your request immediately

[Insaan]

Mr Abuali,

The big question is, why is the media room team and/or jamaat not paying any heed to these serious concerns?

When Br Muhammad got a doubt regarding this issue based on his visit to mediaroom, he had no knowledge on the systems of that place. Instead of clarifying with the members of the media room who are well aware of the system, he decided to put his doubt online and asked the public(who have no knowledge on the systems) on what they could assume/conclude with his incident which have actually led to their FALSE accusations. (nb: everybody is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The proof should not be plain words from peoples mouths rather should be supportive convincing evidence)

Mr Abuali, your good friend did not consult with the mediaroom to clarify himself but rather posted online, can you give me a good reason why then should the mediaroom pay heed to your concerns online.


Secondly, it looks like all of you people raising these concerns are just trying to cause mischief as you are very good at writing but when it comes to taking appropriate actions you are ZERO. If these are "serious concerns" why then did not anyone of you spare your time and bring this issue up in the AGM when the jamat gave you the opportunity to raise your voice as well as the media room ready to answer any questions arising. Had you brought this issue there, this would clearly have been sorted out with the democratic decision of the public on the spot.

The lack of commitment clearly shows your intentions and motives.

[Insaan]

I agree with above Insaan... Why were these people sleeping during AGM?

OK I ask 7 questions from all boiling heads here....

What ACTIONS have you taken in this issue except writing?
Did you verify your claims by proper approach?
Did anyone approached Ladies wing of MediaRoom?
Did anyone tell their mum/sis/wife to observe hijab in Imambargah ?? NO ? That means you don't care!
Have you people collectively met head of the jamaat?
Has any matter / issue been taken so seriously in this Forum?
Have you people thought where our JAMAT is moving and what are the key issues?

Bottomline: For every minute you're taking away from brothers and sisters during this Holy Month is taking them away from Allah's rememberance. & YOU ALL are answerable to it in front of Allah. So please know that ALLAH is watching all of us!

I don't want you to write answers here and make another thread ... thereby making wasting more of our time.
You may think that I am taking it lightly but since I know that this is false allegation being 100% sure, that's why I am trying to awaken you up..!

May Allah give tawfeeq!

[abuali]

Mr Abuali,

Salaam Alaykum

When Br Muhammad got a doubt regarding this issue based on his visit to mediaroom, he had no knowledge on the systems of that place. Instead of clarifying with the members of the media room who are well aware of the system, he decided to put his doubt online and asked the public(who have no knowledge on the systems) on what they could assume/conclude with his incident which have actually led to their FALSE accusations. (nb: everybody is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The proof should not be plain words from peoples mouths rather should be supportive convincing evidence)

Mr Abuali, your good friend did not consult with the mediaroom to clarify himself but rather posted online, can you give me a good reason why then should the mediaroom pay heed to your concerns online.

Brother/Sister,

Either you have not read this 10 page long discussion, which includes two lengthy minutes of meetings with the media room team, or you have conveniently ignored the information that does not suit your point.

Tell me dear brother/sister - is starting a discussion on any matter for the betterment of systems haraam? If so, please provide reference of the ruling from a Marja.

I fail to understand your sensitivity as to the fact that this discussion is in public. Some media room team members raised the same concern that why was this discussion online. My answer was, the public has every right to know. Besides, if you can defend that the systems are not abuse-able in private (i.e. meeting with media room team), you can do the same in public (i.e. Ask forum).

On the contrary, if truly the systems are fool-proof then it is in the interest of the Media Room team that this discussion takes place in public so that the public can heave a sigh of relief.

The only reason I can think of where a public discussion may be disliked is when there is something to hide. Is there?

[abuali]

FALSE accusations. (nb: everybody is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The proof should not be plain words from peoples mouths rather should be supportive convincing evidence)

Brother/Sister

In this entire 10 page discussion, I think it is only those 'Insaan' that are trying to 'SHUT' this discussion that are referring to 'accusing people'.

None of those who are campaigning for the rotating camera to be removed have accused anyone.

Very humbly they have pointed to the weakness of the current system where the camera(s) can easily be abused.

Several Insaan's (like yourself) as well as Br. Mohamed's eyewitness and Sister FZK's testimony of hearing firsthand accounts of the cameras being abused cause us to believe that the system has already been abused before. And this is both saddening and unacceptable.

However, even if we keep aside the above and assume that absolutely no abuse has ever taken place, even then, the fact that the cameras can easily be abused will not change.

[Muhammad]

In His Name, The Most High,

With recent advancements I would like to bring into attention the following:

Alhamdullilah, we have 78 people who have signed the petition so far.

Although the following have been replied by other members I would also like to reply the questions posed by various Insaan's..

can anybody help me with my questions:-

1) has there already been an incident in which the ladies were being viewed at the mediaroom by the gents


Yes. When I entered the media room the first time I did see ladies viewed at the media room by gents when NO lady media room member was present. Although this camera was said to be blurred and the reason for its existence was to see the display on screen. The question arises, which should be done first - the bringing up the screen or turning off the camera? Was this a one-off incident?

2) has anyone of you asked a media room member on the purpose of having the specific camera as opposed to fixed camera

Yes. If you would read through the whole thread, there are minutes of 2 meetings.

3) who is eligible to be a member of the media room? is there any requirement or is it anyone

I cant say, I have never been. But I know many teenagers and youths are members of the Media room.

4) if there hasn't been any such incident for the past 6 years, what is the possibility of it happening now i.e 6 years after the installation of the rotating camera

No one can say outright that no incident has taken place, unless you are All- Knowing that is.


When Br Muhammad got a doubt regarding this issue based on his visit to mediaroom, he had no knowledge on the systems of that place. Instead of clarifying with the members of the media room who are well aware of the system, he decided to put his doubt online and asked the public(who have no knowledge on the systems) on what they could assume/conclude with his incident which have actually led to their FALSE accusations. (nb: everybody is innocent until PROVEN guilty. The proof should not be plain words from peoples mouths rather should be supportive convincing evidence)

We did visit the media room and have meeting with 6-7 members of the media room. We were informed that it takes about 30 Minutes to change from 1 camera to the other (which we all believed, not being professionals at such technology) but alas, our trust was broken when the police officer was relayed within 30 seconds of the gents camera being projected.


Mr Abuali, your good friend did not consult with the mediaroom to clarify himself but rather posted online, can you give me a good reason why then should the mediaroom pay heed to your concerns online.


Secondly, it looks like all of you people raising these concerns are just trying to cause mischief as you are very good at writing but when it comes to taking appropriate actions you are ZERO. If these are "serious concerns" why then did not anyone of you spare your time and bring this issue up in the AGM when the jamat gave you the opportunity to raise your voice as well as the media room ready to answer any questions arising. Had you brought this issue there, this would clearly have been sorted out with the democratic decision of the public on the spot.
The Media room is not only answerable at the AGM.

The lack of commitment clearly shows your intentions and motives.
Motives being what?


OK I ask 7 questions from all boiling heads here....

What ACTIONS have you taken in this issue except writing?

Approached the Media room team, made a petition.

Did you verify your claims by proper approach?
Proper approach being?

Did anyone approached Ladies wing of MediaRoom?
They were present at the meeting.

Did anyone tell their mum/sis/wife to observe hijab in Imambargah ?? NO ? That means you don't care!
You sure seem to be All-knowing and All-Aware..Mashallah.

Have you people collectively met head of the jamaat?
Have already met the media room team, meeting the Jamaat president is on the to-do list.

Has any matter / issue been taken so seriously in this Forum?
You tell me.

Have you people thought where our JAMAT is moving and what are the key issues?
How are they related to the issue at hand?

Bottomline: For every minute you're taking away from brothers and sisters during this Holy Month is taking them away from Allah's rememberance. & YOU ALL are answerable to it in front of Allah. So please know that ALLAH is watching all of us!

This is Allah's Remembrance. ( Thanks for reminding :) )

I don't want you to write answers here and make another thread ... thereby making wasting more of our time.
You may think that I am taking it lightly but since I know that this is false allegation being 100% sure, that's why I am trying to awaken you up..!

Once again, you being 100% sure these allegations are false makes you All Knowing and All aware.




All said and done, We hope that the Media room and the Public take this serious matter at hand and change is brought.

With Duas and Love,

Muhammad Shabbir Mohamedhussein.

[hannah]

SA
dis is a loooong discussion
finally i have read all of it
how can the people in charge lie so blatantly especially fatimbai.

Br. Lalji revealed that from the moment the pin from one of the dome cameras in plugged into the camera controller, it takes 30 minutes for the image from the camera to be viewed in the media room. The rest of the members present confirmed this.

compared to

I asked Br. Murtaza if he has been following up the discussion and if is therefore aware of the queries regarding the 30 minute gap. He said he is aware and the following is a summary of our discussion:

The brother said that he had mentioned 30 minutes as a maximum amount of time it would take for all the equipment to be switched on and running (not as an absolute amount of time).
I asked about the minimum time it would take, which he thought about and said at least 20 minutes.

and

1. That the first statement from a media room team-member, regarding the "30-min" issue, was misleading?
Yes, I believe it was misleading. More so, because none of the 6 members of the media room team said anything to indicate that the assertion of the 30 minute gap was not the absolute truth.

and

switching from one cam to another for viewing usually doesn't even take a minute.

and

You switched from the Gents Imambara Camera featuring the vice president Alhaj Sajjad Virani to the Ladies Imambara camera featuring the police Sister Suzanne in 40 mins... Oh.. sorry. That was 40 seconds. That was quite a feat from an average time that took 30 mins :)

[Muhammad]

Dear Hannah,

Please let us avoid taking names unless absolutely necessary- this may lead to direct accusations which is not the aim and objective of this thread.

Thank you for your summary and observations.

Lets take this the positive way and vote for change...

[Insaan]

Let me leave the specific insaan to answer you but just a point to note muhamad.

Walking in there, seeing the view of a screen in ladies section with nobody staring at it does not mean that they look at the ladies.

Just think about it, its logic, had they known they are doing wrong, they would have locked the door and would not allow any tom, dick or hary such as you to enter.

This is what my thinking is but i am not taking the place of the insaan to answer for him in this post.


Another point is that pls ask your wife to wear full hijab when in the Imambarghah as my brother could abuse his binoculars and look through the open windows of the first floor during any event. I am sure you dont want your wife as well as other ladies to be a victim of this situation

[Muhammad]

In His Name, The Most High

Walking in there, seeing the view of a screen in ladies section, does actually mean the ladies can be looked at... The argument is still valid and it stays the same as my answer in my previous post to one of the Insaan :)

I humbly thank you for admonishing me about the hijab of my wife. The commander of the Faithful (AS) used to ask his companions to admonish him and used to say that the pleasure in hearing (in this case, reading) is better than knowing... And again our family is our responsibility, so we can not stop reminding them and ourselves of such an important aspect of life- hijab. But again, a better advice to me would be to ask my mother, my wife and the ladies of my home to wear full hijab at mosque. None the less, May Allah reward you for your deeds. :) (Remember not a mustard weight of deed goes unseen)

With Duas.

Oh I love the way Allah works - (Atheists would call it co-incidence). I was reading this article on medscape about anonymity and internet abuse... For those interested: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/768163_2

[Insaan]

Wait a minute, why do i find that you keep changing your words. Is it that "they can be looked" at or "they are being looked at." Did you see anybody looking at it? And when i say it, i mean ladies and not the projector screen. Since its a monitor, the ratio of which the projector screen occupies in it will be big and therefore my lame thinking tells me you can focus your eyes on what you intend to see and it isnt possible to see all four corners at one glance. Also, it would be important if you would mention how many were looking and what are their names so that i can take this issue forward to jamaat with full knowledge and ask them to remove these specific people from working in such places.

Jazakallah