Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Discuss general religious issues that affect all of us in our daily lives.

What do you feel about the cameras installed in the ladies imambargah?

I dont see any problem with them even if men can use them to see the ladies
0
No votes
As long as the media room team is reliable, they wont abuse the cameras. So no problem
6
29%
I am ok with one camera fixed on the mimbar accessible only by the ladies from the ladies side. Anything more is unacceptable
10
48%
Why have cameras in the ladies side at all. No cameras, no opportunity given to shaitan to encourage abuse
5
24%
 
Total votes: 21
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Insaan
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Insaan » 15 Aug 2012, 17:43

What's the status?
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Muhammad » 17 Aug 2012, 01:02

Updates from a person specialized in CCTV's coming soon inshaAllah.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Insaan » 17 Aug 2012, 04:02

muhammad, fatema zahra karim, qamar and all others.

before we continue, i think we need to have a look at Shk Nakshwani's Quran tafseer on Sura Hujraat, p9, last year 1432 in dsm.

it relates to our scenario
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Muhammad » 17 Aug 2012, 04:12

a summary of it being?
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Insaan » 17 Aug 2012, 06:57

i think it will be better if you check it out for yourself to allow you to understand it in detail with examples
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 17 Aug 2012, 15:05

For the sake of gaining knowledge (despite the fact that no wrong has been done by most of the members here),
here is the lecture that Insaan was referring to
Lecture 9, 1432
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The educated man has the right to manipulate the ignorant, if the ignorance of the of the ignorant is due to his own ignorance.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Fatimah Zahra Karim » 17 Aug 2012, 18:16

The verse of the Qur'an says "Oh you who believe, when a FASIQ comes to you with news, then VERIFY it, lest you harm people in ignorance, then regret what you have done " (Hujuraat:6).

Looking at the word FASIQ in the Arabic dictionary, I find it means "Godless, sinful, dissolute, wanton, licentious, profligate, vicious, iniquitous, nefarious, sinner, adulterer, fornicator." The Arabic dictionary goes on to say "A person not meeting the legal requirements of righteousness (Isl. Law)"

Now, I know Br. Muhammad Shabbir personally and I believe that not a single one of these listed adjectives apply to him, so the conditions of verifying a report do not apply here.

However, I also have the personal testimonies of 2 other Muslim males (baligh, sane, aadil, not-committing-sins-openly and of legitimate birth) that corroborate his report. I am therefore very confident that his report is indeed factual, and I have no doubts concerning it.

The lecture refers to judging people's personal lives, I believe. And as far as this discussion goes, we have not discussed individuals or their personal lives. We have discussed a public issue which has the potential of having serious effects on the hijab of women who observe hijab.
If Allah assists you, there is none that can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, then who is there that can assist you after Him? And on Allah should the believers rely (Qur'an 3:160)
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby abuali » 20 Aug 2012, 01:24

(bismillah)

Eid Mubarak.

I am told there is now a new notice (stricter in words than the one before) on the Media Room door that restricts entry to only those who are members of the media room.

I am also told that there is a small camera outside the door.

Can anyone verify this? If verified, what is the purpose of this notice (considering the statement from the first meeting below) and especially the camera?

The chairman of the media room team said despite the notice restricting entry on the media room door, they never close their doors. Anyone can enter freely and several people do. Anyone who wants to go see how the equipment work can do so when the media room is open. The ladies can also visit the media room during ladies only events as a ladies team is in the room then.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby qamar » 21 Aug 2012, 08:24

idd mubarak everyone

sorry i have been away

94 people have signed the petition

what next?

the notice n the cam outside media room door sounds unbelievable what are the exact words of the notice and are you sure there is a camera

insaan, 'can be looked at' or 'are being looked at' are no different if the systems allow the ladies to be looked at then with the media room being so close and secure what would stop someone from doing so?
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby qamar » 21 Aug 2012, 22:42

by the way thanks to all who signed [up]
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby abuali » 23 Aug 2012, 01:42

(salam)

Alhamdulilah, we have a meeting with the Jamaat managing committee this week to discuss this issue.

I personally am very optimistic that our jamaat leadership who are wise and concerned about the feelings and religious sensitivities of its membership, will take the appropriate steps to correct the situation and give immediate go ahead to build a ladies media room in the ladies imambargah.

Alhamdulilah, the chairman of the media room team, when meeting with a fellow concerned member, said that the media room team has no issues if a separate ladies media room is built.

Br. Qamar, based on opinions of several members, can we add the option of a separate ladies media room to the petition? This, I believe is a valid option, and will mean those that see usefulness of the cameras but are not happy with the current system, will also sign the petition.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby qamar » 24 Aug 2012, 00:36

thats brilliant news abuali

look at the petition wordings you will see that the option of a ladies media room is mentioned

Currently the media room can access the ladies imambargha and their cameras with the potential to rotate and zoom into any lady sitting without hijab.

This footage can be recorded and potentially distributed!

Since a rotating camera is not necessary, we the undersigned petiton for the removal of the rotating camera or creating a secondary media room for ladies only which can access the lady cameras.

The complete details can be found here

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=3093


to make it clearer i have updated the petition title to say

Media Room of KSIJ: Make a ladies media room or remove cameras from the ladies Imambargah

what do you think
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Insaan » 24 Aug 2012, 01:27

Dont forget to add that in case a new ladies media room will be built, no man shall be allowed to have any sort of engagement with it in the sense that all wiring, installation of equipments and switches, fixing/repair of ladies cameras, fixing of doors should also be done only by the ladies. Whats the point of having a new 'ladies' media room if gents will be involved and do any of the work and know how the ladies media room works. It will again lead to possibility of potential abuse if the gents have a touch in it.

We should not allow the gents to do any of the work if we make a ladies media room. Let the ladies climb the ladder and do the necessary work as long as there is no room for POTENTIAL abuse.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby abuali » 24 Aug 2012, 02:02

qamar wrote:Media Room of KSIJ: Make a ladies media room or remove cameras from the ladies Imambargah

[up]
I think your title is much better now.
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Meeting with Office Bearers of KSI Jamaat

Postby abuali » 25 Aug 2012, 16:07

(bismillah)
(salam)

5 concerned members (Br. Muhammad Mahdi, Br, Muhamad Shabbir, Br. Ahmad Chagani, Br. Mohammedraza Panjwani & myself) met with the KSI Jamaat board members yesterday (Friday 24 Aug 2012), including an expert in CCTV solutions.

The board members were very cordial and kind and received us very well.

We tabled our motion that a separate control room be established inside the ladies imambargah from where the rotating camera on the ladies side can be controlled. In this way, the weakness and risk of abuse of the current system will be eliminated.

After due deliberations including:

1. Vulnerability of the current system
2. Technical, practical and financial viability of making a separate control room to control the ladies cameras

There was general consensus that :

1. The current systems were prone to abuse should anyone decide to take advantage of its weaknesses.

2. A separate media room would be technically (thanks to expert advice of the cctv professional present), practically and financially viable.

The office bearers however requested time so that they could

1. Approach and discuss the matter with Sheikh Alidina (to find out if with its current weakness the system is sharia-compliant or not).

2. Approach and discuss the issue with the LMC to assess if they or any ladies have any issues with the current system.

3. Deliberate the matter among themselves before reaching a decision and informing us.

Upon requesting a time frame we were assured they would deal with the matter as fast as possible but they can not give a time-line as the jamaat has many other things to deal with as well. However we were told that we would be kept up to date an be informed of progress in 2 weeks time. However, Azimbhai assured us that the Jamaat will come to a speedy resolution after taking into considerations the weakness of the system and religious sensitivities of the members they are serving.

We informed the board that the chairman of media room team had also recommended a separate control room for ladies.

We were told that because the Jamaat has so far not received any 'official' complaints about the cameras on the ladies side and therefore are not convinced that the jamaat members have any problems with it.

I would therefore like to request all those who are concerned about the potential abuse of the cameras to personally approach/email any of the office bearers (listed below) to 'officially' register their concern. This way jamaat will be able to know if the members are truly concerned or not.

President: Shirazbhai Walji
Vice President: Azimbhai Dewji
Secretary: Zulfikarbhai Chandoo
Jt. Secretary: Kauserbhai Jeraj

emails:
management@ksijdar.org
secretary@ksijdar.org
[Please send a copy of your email to petition[at]ask.or.tz so that we can also be aware of your email. If you contact any of the jamaat officials in person or by phone, please also inform us via email or post in this forum]

Ladies can also contact any member of the LMC, so that the LMC can 'officially' register their concerns to the Jamaat office bearers.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the office bearers for their time and attentive ears which they kindly accorded us.

Jazakallah khair.

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