Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Discuss general religious issues that affect all of us in our daily lives.

What do you feel about the cameras installed in the ladies imambargah?

I dont see any problem with them even if men can use them to see the ladies
0
No votes
As long as the media room team is reliable, they wont abuse the cameras. So no problem
6
29%
I am ok with one camera fixed on the mimbar accessible only by the ladies from the ladies side. Anything more is unacceptable
10
48%
Why have cameras in the ladies side at all. No cameras, no opportunity given to shaitan to encourage abuse
5
24%
 
Total votes: 21
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Muslim Soldier » 24 Oct 2012, 01:31

Since our brothers and sisters are based on assumptions.


Remove the assumptions and voila, our brothers and sisters disappear 8)
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Fatimah Zahra Karim » 24 Oct 2012, 09:40

Muslim Soldier wrote:
Since our brothers and sisters are based on assumptions.


Remove the assumptions and voila, our brothers and sisters disappear 8)



Hahahahah! :lol:
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby qamar » 07 Nov 2012, 22:52

any updates about this?

i am skeptical. if they install the switch in some obscure place where no one can see it then it can be left one without anyone noticing
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby abuali » 17 Mar 2013, 20:39

(bismillah)
(salam)

My deepest apologies for not responding to these concerns earlier.

Upon reading the posted concerns and upon being asked by several jamaat members about a confirmation of the switch being installed as promised by the jamaat, i wrote the following email to the secretary of the jamaat, br. Zulfikar Chandoo, on 7 March 2013:

Dear Br. Zulfikar

Salaamun Alaykum

Hope you are well.

Please refer to our email conversation below and our informal meeting at the masjid where you informed me the folowing:

- That a decision to install a cut-off switch had been reached
- That this switch will be installed and operational before Muharram

I have been receiving several queries from those who were present during our meeting and others about the implementation of this decision and concerns about the location of such a switch.

Please let us know if the switch is in place and operational. Kindly also advice where the switch has been placed and if it is in a clearly visible location. And the person in charge of the switch.

We would love to be given a demonstration of the effectiveness of the switch at a convenient time for the media room team.

with salaams


I am still waiting for a reply :(

I sent a polite reminder on Friday 15 March 2013, but have not been responded to.

If you recall the decision to install this switch was made in October 2012 (6 months ago!) and was to be working before Muharram began in 2012, as indicated in the post below:


abuali wrote:I spoke to the Jamaat secretary today and he updated me that there has been some progress. They have met with Dr. Alidina and he has recommended changing the system so that the media room does not have direct access to the rotating camera on the ladies side.

The secretary informed me that they are working on a solution that involves a cut-of-switch that shall be located in the ladies side which when switched on will allow the signal from the camera on the ladies side to be relayed to the media room. Hence when switched off, the media room will not be able to access the camera in the ladies side.

He said that the system should be in place before Muharram inshallah.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Insaan » 19 Mar 2013, 18:38

(salam)

and upon being asked by several jamaat members


It is funny to see that some of the jamat members have lost their way to the jamaat office and are now coming to ask you jamaat related questions. Can you please enlighten me what your position is in the jamaat that they are coming to ask you jamaat related questions?
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby abuali » 21 Mar 2013, 09:58

(wasalam)

I received the following response from the desk of Br. Zahir Somji on behalf of the Hon. Secretary:

Dear Brother Hasin,

Thank you for your mail regarding the cut off switch at the ladies imambargah. The secretariat engaged with the technicians and have not proceeded with the option as it requires breaking the ceiling which is not the preferred option.
Since the installation of the switch is turning out to be a difficult exercise, we are looking for a couple of female media operators. Any suggestions in filling this vacancies would be helpful.

Meanwhile, we would appreciate your confidence in the managing team to make the right decision at an appropriate time with the necessary discretion.

On behalf of the Secretary,

Wa Salaam,


:(
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Fatimah Zahra Karim » 24 Mar 2013, 18:43

we are looking for a couple of female media operators. Any suggestions in filling this vacancies would be helpful.


Really? Back to square one, huh?

Makes me wonder...how much do they really know? There are no vacancies. There already ARE female media room operators. That wasn't the issue.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Insaan » 11 Apr 2013, 13:56

I agree with Fatimah , that wasn’t the issue at all .We are back to square one again.

I am really surprised about the turn out of events, after reading about maalim Alidina’s advices, there is no room left for doubt as regards to the actions to be taken.

Infact the managing team themselves proposed the solution to this:
The secretary informed me that they are working on a solution that involves a cut-of-switch...


BUT now they are backing out after being cornered from every direction and are offering flimsy excuses for their timid act .They don’t want to make hole in the ceiling! What about all the previous holes for other fittings on the ceilings, or are they holes free???

I would kindly like to remind them that they had given their word and that acts as a pledge between them and the community.

Lets see some verses of Holy Quran and hadith on this moral act:

"and fulfill the promise, surely (every) promise shall be questioned about."(Surah Bani Israel 17:34)

Similarly the Quran describes truthful and the pious people thus,

"...and those who fulfill their promise when they make a promise.." (Surah Baqarah 2:177)

The beginning verses of Surah Saff has also denounced the breaking of promise . Similarly, and clearly they prove that non-fulfillment of a promise is haraam.

O you who believe! why do you say that which you do not do? (Quran 61:2]

It is most hateful to Allah that you should say that which you do not do. (Quran 61:3)

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said:
"One who has belief in Allah and in last day (Qiyamat) must keep his word when he promises." (Usool-e-Kafi)
Thus keeping a promise is a fulfillment for the belief in Allah and the Day of Qiyamat.

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) is reported to have said:
"Three traits make man a hypocrite even if he prays and fasts:
Betrayal of trust, lying and non-fulfillment of promise." (Usool-e-Kafi)

Amirul Momineen Ali (a.s.) advises Malik al-Ashtar regarding the honouring of promises:
"Breaking a promise causes the anger of Allah." (Nahjul Balagha)

Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) has also remarked:
"There are three obligations in fulfillment of which Allah does not give concession to any: To behave well with the parents, whether they are righteous or sinners; to fulfill ones promise; whether to a righteous person or a sinner; and to deliver a trust (to its owner) whether he is righteous or a sinner." (Shaykh Sadooq: Khisaal)
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambargah

Postby Insaan » 05 May 2013, 19:08

It sure seems like we are back to square one.

Did anyone notice the lame reason given by Mr. Somji for not doing anything - I.e. they don't want to 'break the ceiling' [down]

First off- its all false ceiling
Secondly - they have never had problems installing much bigger things like projectors, fans, a/c etc but suddenly making a hole to pass a wire is not possible.

I didn't expect this from the jamaat board [down]
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby qamar » 27 Jul 2013, 20:18

One of the brothers there has been some progress on installing the switch. i hope its true.
abuali pls update us
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby imranhameer » 18 Aug 2013, 16:20

I believe there should be a meeting with Sheikh Alidina present in that meeting. That would be more just and effective if we can all agree that we trust his opinion, and that we shall do as per his recommendations and that our interest is in doing the right thing for the long term security of our brothers and sisters in faith by preserving the values that we embody. Our jamaat constitutes of executive and non-executive people that embody values, and the quality of decisions that shall determine the future of our jamaat shall be determined by the preserved values and hence our collective intelligence. A corruption of values shall necessarily lead to our downfall. I trust that in our jamaat, enough are sophisticated to maintain a critical mass of virtuousness and righteousness.

With this in mind, anything short of a joint meeting (with honorable Sheikh Alidinas' presence) will tantamount to going back and forth regularly and we shall not be able to effectively and thoroughly brainstorm and handle concerns; after all, we are a task force/team interested in righteousness aren't we? Wouldn't you agree?

Salaams and thank you.

NB: My stance, separate room. the cut-off switch approach is still risky as the the DVR content shall be accessible.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby abuali » 02 Nov 2013, 20:44

(bismillah)
(salam)

Apologies for the the delay in posting updates. I had been requested by Azimbhai Dewji and by Zahirbhai Somji not to post the updates publicly. I had agreed to defer posting the updates on the condition that they successfully address the concerns raised.

Till date they have failed to address the issue and therefore I am posting the updates.

Following receipt of the above email we sent the following email to the entire executive team on Mar 21, 2013

Shirazbhai, Azimbhai, Zulfikarbhai, Zahirbhai

Salaam Alaykum

We write this email with utmost disappointment and feeling of hurt and misplacement of trust with the management team.

We request you to recall our lengthy meeting on the eve of 24 August 2012 (refer to viewtopic.php?f=70&t=3093&start=150#p16822 for a brief summary) following which Azimbhai and Zulfikarbhai both informed me that after consultation with Sheikh Alidina the Managing Committee has undertaken to install a cut-off switch which will be operational before Muharram. Note that Muharram passed about 6 months ago.

Zahirbhai, as you appreciated in your email our 'confidence in the managing team to make the right decision at an appropriate time with the necessary discretion'. However, our confidence was crushed and the promise made to us was not acted upon. We only get to know this 6 months later, and that also when we inquired!

Zahirbhai, with all due respect, your suggestion of looking for a couple of female media operators is making a mockery of the sensitivity and seriousness of this issue. Granted, you may have made the comment without being aware of all the options and conditions that we have already discussed and ruled out. I therefore would like you to refer to the very lengthy discussion about this issue at viewtopic.php?f=70&t=3093&start=150 and also request a briefing from the managing committee members who are well aware of the sensitivities of this issue and the sharia that applies to it.

In view of the above, we would like to request the following:

1. Immediate removal of the rotating camera from the ladies side until the switch can be installed.
2. If installing the switch is 'turning out to be difficult' then work on a separate ladies only media room should begin as the next viable option.
3. A meeting with the managing committee to discuss the above.

A reminder to all of us that it was to protect the Hijab that Bibi Zainab (as) was ready to burn alive. Yet, it is the imam (as) bargah which exists to carry out her sunnat where we are taking the protection of hijab of our women folk lightly.

I trust we can have the meeting soon to discuss and implement a way forward.

with salaams

Hasin, Muhammad, Muhamad, Ahmad, Mohammedraza
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby abuali » 02 Nov 2013, 20:51

[RESERVED FOR UPDATES OF SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH AZIMBHAI DURING THE HOLY MONTHS OF SHABAN AND MAHE RAMADHAN]
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby abuali » 02 Nov 2013, 20:55

[RESERVED FOR SUMMARY OF MEETING WITH ZAHIRBHAI SOMJI, SADIKBHAI ALISHAN, MOHAMMEDRAZABHAI PANJWANI, SHEIKH ALIDINA AND SHEIKH SAQALAIN AND MYSELF ON 26 SEPTEMBER]

I have not had the time to formally write-up my notes of the above meeting. While I write up the minutes formally, I am sharing my raw notes of the meeting below:

A quick summary of the meeting
Dr alidina, shk saqalain, zahir somji, sadik alishan, bhaijaan and myself were present

We started at about 7 and finished at about 9am

After dealing with the initial issues whereby sadik and zahir complained about bringing the issue on ask and all

They said they have implemented changes and are implementing changes to deal with our observations

They denied the system being abusable

Bhaijaan very efficiently explained how the system was abusable

Eventually dr asked if thesystem was abusable to sadik

He said no

Then bhaijan mentioned how the cameras can be viewed via dvr

And how someone can plug in and watch the ladies camera while dua iftitah slides are playing

Sadik had to agree it can be done But said no one would

Dr alidina then mentioned how once a media room team member had askedhim if he wants to see how much asraf is happening

Dr asked him how

He said come to media room we will zoom in. Dr said he was shocked that he was being invited to spy on people without their knowledge.

Then asked sadik if this is still possible

He answeed yes

Dr asked if the same is possible to do in the ladies side

He said yes

We proposed the short-medium-long term approach

Short - switch

Medium - the ladies only team which sadik is working on

Long - a seperate media room

Dr asked zahir if jamaat was aware of this proposal. Zahir confirmed that jamaat was aware. Dr then addressed zahir and told him that jamaat should work on the proposal and implement it if there is no logical reason not to do so.

Sadik stated that a separate media room for ladies will never happen.

Sadik and zahir were adamant that the current systems are fine with the changes they are making

Note that i asked the question of why not the switch several times

Never once was the reason of breaking the ceiling given

Instead the question was evaded

Finally shk asked sadik if he can implement the switch

Sadik said he needs time to think

Then he said what if he makes a lock and key within media room to lock the ladies camera cable

I said that will not be as good as a switch since the lock and key will still be within the media room.

Sadik and zahir said even the switch is abusable as someone can break the ceiling and disconnect the cable so the camera can be on even when the switch is off.

By this time sheikh said he needs to conclude the meeting

So he said jamaat should monitor by paying surprise visits and those doing the suprise visits should be trained so that they know what to look for

And we should meet after zilhaj to discuss and see weaknesses and decide what to do next

I said it was reasonable but it was not enough

Dr agreed. He said this is not a final decision.
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Re: Media Room KSIJ & Cameras inside ladies Mosque / Imambar

Postby abuali » 02 Nov 2013, 21:05

Since then we have had no update from Jamaat or Media Room on whether the recommendations have been deliberated and whether any surprise visits have been conducted or not.

On the topic of surprise visits, it is worth noting that a CCTV camera is installed outside the Media Room door as seen in the video below, rendering surprise visits practically impossible to conduct.


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