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[Muhammad]

Oh and yeah the media room team is always open if one has any more queries or doubts!

[smak786110]

happy new year.
(i guess my points were repeated)

[Muhammad Mahdi]

And when we entered in 1 of the computer screens I could see the Zarih inside the ladies mosque whereby the ladies were paying their respect.

Muhammad, how was this then possible?
All that the media room ppl have told you, smak said the same thing.

[Muhammad]

About the Zarih that was seen - it was a CCTV that was pointing at a screen and the screen at that time was up. And the screen is just infront of the Zarih when its down...

[Muhammad Mahdi]

So with the screen down there is still a chance women will be seen paying respect to the zarih?

[Muhammad]

but the resolution is very bad and that you as per the chairman "you can only see something black coming to the screen and going away" as the picture is blurry as they have intentionally set the camera to be blurry.

[Muhammad Mahdi]

I dunno. I still see room for misuse (not that the current administration is doing any).

Cameras can be refocused. And I don't understand the 30 min stabilizing process.

[Muhammad]

Well i guess you can contact them directly for more information :)

[abuali]

Before i summarize the concerns discussed during the meeting (br. Muhamad has already provided a concise summary), i would like to personally thank:

• The members of the community (and Ask members) who being concerned about the potential abuse of cameras, discussed the matter and initiated a process that led to a joint meeting to discuss the same concerns with the media room team. Especially those who took the time to attend the meeting.
• The media room team especially the six members who met with us for the akhlaqi manner by which they have dealt with the constructive criticism and new ideas presented by the community members and youth.
• The Jamaat President Br. Shiraz Walji for taking the time to personally visit the media room

I hope that future discussions and ideas are discussed and dealt with in the same mature and ethical manner.

Summary minutes of the meeting

In attendance
6 members of the media room team including the head of the ladies team
6 - 7 members from the community

Date: 31 Dec 2011
Time: 9:20pm
Venue: the outside room of the media room.

The main concern of the members of the community was

'the potential abuse of a system whereby a rotating camera (dome camera) and fixed cctv cameras that are controlled from a room that is accessible by gents while it has abilities to switch on and control the cameras in the ladies imambargah'

The members of media room team presented the following points which each and every one of them confirmed and vouched with their personal guarantees:

1. 3 dome (rotating) cameras are installed in the masjid and imambargahs. 1 in ladies imambargah and 2 in gents side (main masjid and imambargah). Only 1 such camera is installed in Mehfil.
2. These three cameras are linked to the media room via cables ending in a pin for each camera. Mehfil camera is not linked to the media room in the masjid.
3. The media room currently owns only one camera controller which has only one input.
4. Therefore only input from one of the 3 cameras can be viewed by anyone in the media room at any one time.
5. Br. Lalji revealed that from the moment the pin from one of the dome cameras in plugged into the camera controller, it takes 30 minutes for the image from the camera to be viewed in the media room. The rest of the members present confirmed this.

Several scenarios were then discussed, taking into consideration the 30 min gap as a security measure:

• In other words, if anyone wanted to view the ladies Imambargah, say while the Majlis from Mehfil-e-Abbas was being relayed (FROM 8PM - 9PM), they would have to ensure that the pin for the gents Imambargah camera is put in the camera controller 30 minutes before it needs to relay images to the screens. So they would have to input the cable from the ladies Imambargah at 7:30pm to be able to view an image from ladies Imambargah at 8pm. That would give him 15 minutes to view as by 8:15pm he would have to plug in the cable from the camera in the gents Imambargah so that it can start working by 8:45pm.
• During Dua Kumayl on Thursdays, the ladies coordinator said it was possible for the camera in the ladies side to be switched on since all that is being relayed on the screens would be the Dua slides. However, she said that abuse at that time was not possible because the ladies would not be in the ladies Imambargah but in the upper Masjid where there are no cameras.
• The members inquired of the team that as per their knowledge of the systems, how about abuse at other times where the screen is not being used (for example niyaz etc). They said that the safeguard was that the keys were not with every member. Only reliable members had keys.
• They said that the Jamaat and the media room team have had the same concerns. So when the Jamaat appoints the team members and those who will have keys, they ensure they are reliable and would not abuse the system.
• In addition a ladies team led by the ladies coordinator is present in the ladies only events such as the Majlises in the evenings. If the ladies team face a technical problem that they cannot solve, they call in the gents. But before the gents enter the media room the ladies team ensure the monitors are off. The ladies coordinator confirmed and guaranteed this procedure.
• We asked if the dome camera in the Mehfil-e-Abbas can be controlled from the media room. They said that it cannot be controlled from the media room in the Imambargah. it can only be controlled from the media room in the Mehfil. So ladies attending Majlises in the Mehfil need not be concerned about being viewed by anyone in the media room of the Masjid.
• We asked if the equipments have an ability to record from the cameras. They agreed that the equipment could record but said it is only used to record gents events. The ladies coordinator said there would be no point in recording the ladies events or Majalises since the only input is of video (minus the audio). The audio link is taken from a PA system installed in the outside room of the media room.
• Considering some weaknesses that can lead to potential abuse in the future (such as dependence on the reliability of future key holders and acquiring of equipment that can be abused such as a controller with multiple camera inputs), again the media room team reiterated that the people holding the keys are reliable and Jamaat takes that risk into account when appointing them. These risks are also considered when buying equipment such as camera controllers.
• We inquired whether, to eliminate any chance of abuse, if the dome camera can be removed from the ladies side. The ladies coordinator responded that they needed the camera for functions such as dramas, stage programs, graduations, qasidas etc.
• We asked if that's the case, how about rewiring the dome camera in the ladies side to a room in the ladies Imambargah only accessible to the ladies. They said it was not practical as the wiring and changes required would be a lot of work and an additional unnecessary cost.
• The media room team also informed us that the Jamaat President, Br. Shiraz Walji had paid an unannounced visit to the media room to see the systems at work. He had asked to see the image from the cctv that shows the zarih in the ladies imambargah (the one Br. Muhamad had seen) once the screen has been lifted. He asked the image from that cctv to be put on the large screen. They said he found it blurry and without any problem. The chairman of the media room team said that camera had been left blurred on purpose for the last 6 years.
• The chairman of the media room team said despite the notice restricting entry on the media room door, they never close their doors. Anyone can enter freely and several people do. Anyone who wants to go see how the equipment work can do so when the media room is open. The ladies can also visit the media room during ladies only events as a ladies team is in the room then.
• The meeting ended on a light note and reconfirming the fact that we were all jointly concerned about the abuse of the cameras and working towards the same goals. All of us appreciated the amount of hard work that the media room team puts into doing some excellent work like the dua translations.
• Some of the media room team members showed concern that the community members started discussing their concerns on Ask (the open internet) instead of talking to one of the media room team members or taking the concern to the Jamaat instead.
• We pointed to the fact that some members present that day and concerned about potential abuse, had never even posted in this discussion. This proved that several members have these same concerns. If one of us had gone with the concerns to the media room team and had been told all the above, it would have stayed between him and the team. This may have led to such a discussion in the future. Through this discussion the larger community can be made aware of the precautions the media room team and Jamaat are taking to ensure the integrity of the systems, both in the present and those who will read this discussion in the future.
• We also assured the team that the discussion was in good faith and the concerns valid stemming from a lack of information on how the systems work. The media room team floored an idea of perhaps being available during the Annual General Meeting to report their work and take questions from the floor.
• The media room team was concerned that not everyone who has these concerns or has followed this discussion will know all their responses especially since this discussion has created a negative feeling about the media room. We assured them that a summary of the meeting will be posted in the same discussion
• The media room team is following this discussion and is expecting further queries. If you do have any follow up questions or need more information please respectfully ask the same here. Ladies can contact Sis. Fatim Somji.

If need be, we can compile any such relevant follow-up questions and request the media room to respond to the same.

If I have missed anything please do let me know.

[abuali]

I dunno. I still see room for misuse (not that the current administration is doing any).

Cameras can be refocused. And I don't understand the 30 min stabilizing process.

We should have requested for details of how the 30 minute gap works. Unfortunately none of us did ask for the details.

However, Br, Lalji said the 30 minute delay was due to the type of cables they were using. He also said it was a precautionary measure, like the 'out of focus' cctv that would otherwise be able to show clear views of ladies doing salaam at the zarih. The focus of the cctv can not be controlled remotely, he said, as it is a cctv type camera that has a fixed focus.

[qamar]

excellent stuff

i am happy some progress has been made

i can now discard my letter which had a lot of the questions that were addressed in the said meeting.

however, i now have other questions based on the revelation of how it'll works

i feel the system is still abuseable becoz in the market all camera controllers these days have multiple inputs. if such a controller is used all the cameras can be used at one time without anyone outside the room knowing

[qamar]

even more worrying is the issue of 30 minutes.

i am involved in relaying videos for security reasons. i have never come across a wired dome system that takes 30 minutes to relay video

are you sure they didnt say like 30 seconds?

[Moonbeam]

for putting our fears to rest.

However I like the idea of having a separate ladies media room altogether. It wud be the best long term solution. And since there is only one camera in the ladies to be controlled it shud not be as costly to just do a bit of re-wiring n get one more controller? I dnt think space is an issue either in our mosque. (m no expert here just musing aloud on the possibilities :))

[Insaan]

I agree with moonbeam, seperate ladies media room is the best most effective and long lasting solution to this problem.After having spent so much in the renovation of the mosque,a lil more wont make any difference and I for one certainly dont see it as an unneccessary expense.I think all hijab conscious women will agree with me.

Though I dont have much knowledge on working of these cameras but the 30 minutes stabilizing process sounds very confusing.Please do ask those in charge of the media room for clarification if possible.

3.The members inquired of the team that as per their knowledge of the systems, how about abuse at other times where the screen is not being used (for example niyaz etc). They said that the safeguard was that the keys were not with every member. Only reliable members had keys.

4.They said that the Jamaat and the media room team have had the same concerns. So when the Jamaat appoints the team members and those who will have keys, they ensure they are reliable and would not abuse the system

Is it possible for the jamaat to find people who are 100 percent reliable? I dont think this is possible as we all are human beings and prone to error.Personally I dont think this is a justifiable answer.

11.The media room team also informed us that the Jamaat President, Br. Shiraz Walji had paid an unannounced visit to the media room to see the systems at work. He had asked to see the image from the cctv that shows the zarih in the ladies imambargah (the one Br. Muhamad had seen) once the screen has been lifted. He asked the image from that cctv to be put on the large screen. They said he found it blurry and without any problem. The chairman of the media room team said that camera had been left blurred on purpose for the last 6 years

Though its good to hear that the Jammaat president paying an unannounced visit to the media room but the question arises as to how regular are his visits or are they only sometimes.What if he is not in town are there any person in charge for this task of checking out that the cameras arent abused?

[abuali]

With the building up of concerns over the explanation with regards to the '30 minutes between plugging in and being able to view images from the camera', I went to discuss the same with the Media room team with the aim of getting more technical information behind the 30 minute gap.

Here is a summary:

Summary of follow-up meet with Br. Murtaza Lalji

Date: January 3, 2011
Time: 8:45 PM (right after majlis of 30th of shuhada-e-karbala)
Reason: Further details of the 30 minute gap

When I went up to the media room, I was very warmly received and welcomed into the inner room of the media room (where all the equipment is housed and where the cameras are controlled from) by br. Lalji. Since the Majlis had finished, all the screens were switched off. Luckily Br. Murtaza Lalji and other members of the team were still there (including the ladies chair).

I asked Br. Murtaza if he has been following up the discussion and if is therefore aware of the queries regarding the 30 minute gap. He said he is aware and the following is a summary of our discussion:

• The brother said that he had mentioned 30 minutes as a maximum amount of time it would take for all the equipment to be switched on and running (not as an absolute amount of time).
• I asked about the minimum time it would take, which he thought about and said at least 20 minutes.
• I asked for technical details of why it takes that much time. Since we were inside the room with the equipments, he showed me 3 pieces of keyboard-like equipment:
  
  a. Camera controller (Panasonic)
  b. Divider
  c. Mixer (Panasonic)
  
  There was one camera input in the camera controller where one of the 3 camera's cables is connected at a time. He explained that the controller is then connected to the divider which is used to divide the screen to show either the camera input or the power-point screens. He explained that from the divider the connection passes to the mixer which is used to mix the videos with effects.
  
  He said the mixer takes approximately 10 minutes to boot up. However, I clarified with him that neither the divider or the mixer need to be switched on if someone just wants to view input from the camera.
• I asked what if i want to connect the camera directly to a flat screen (approx 30 inch) which was right above these three pieces of equipment. He explained that to do that he would have to remove the AV cables from the controller and input them into the screen above.
• I asked how long it would take the camera controller to switch on and display the image onto the screen if it was directly connected as explained above. He said although plugging in the camera would switch it on instantly, the camera being a rotating camera would start rotating immediately.
• I asked if while the camera is rotating someone in media room could see the image. He said yes they could see the image but it would be blurred because of the rotating. [as an afterthought, i forgot to ask the speed of the rotation]
• I asked if the rotating can be stopped manually using a button on the camera controller. He said yes it can, however, it would damage the lens if the rotation is stopped suddenly. He said they therefore wait between 10 to 15 minutes before doing so. [that's how he says 20 minutes minimum; 10 minutes for this and 10 minutes for the mixer to boot up. Therefore without the mixer, it will be only 10 minutes, if their policy of waiting 10 minutes before stopping the rotation is followed].
• I wondered aloud what would stop someone from stopping the camera and focusing if it was manually possible. He said the lens would get damaged as a result and would cost $2500 to replace. He said that's what had happened to the camera lens in the gents Masjid (because of stopping the rotation without waiting for 10 minutes) and that's why currently there is no camera there.