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[qamar]

iIts a welcome reaction that someone from the media room called and showed concern about the opinion of members who have valid reasons to fear the 'cameras'.

lakini apart from just words, their actions are absent. since we know media room team is following this discussion let them answer the following concerns i have (others can add their concerns).

a. are there rotating cameras in the ladies imambarga?
b. how many and where?
c. can these be controlled from the medua room?
d. if i become a member if the media room team next year, can i connect to the ladies and 'check out' the ladies from the media room?
e. if not, what would stop me if i really wanted to?
f. WHY ARE ROTATING CAMERAS IN LADIES SIDE IN THE FIRST PLACE????

frankly i see politics in play here. how long does it take media room or jamaat to respond to these serious concerns? lack of response signifies guilt.

[abuali]

I had been told that the jamaat is going to issue a response to these concerns.

So far, have not heard anything.

Will keep you informed.

In the meanwhile, lets try to visit the media room so that we can answer some of the concerns by our own observations and also get an opportunity to ask team members the same.

When we meet any of the team members, we can also express our concerns and get their views on the same.

[qamar]

i dont think this show of lack of concern by the jamaat of believers who pride themselves in being mourners of the hijab of the womenfolk of ahlulbayt in karbala is befitting

the least i would accept from the jamaat and the media toom team is to keep aside egos and independently review the systems in place in thr media room with a view to idntifying weaknesses that can lead to abuse

their silence speaks volumes about the value of the hijab of the communities mothers, sisters and daughters

i am drafting a letter which once completed i will post here we can all sign it (or publish it as a petition) so as to cone to a solution

[Muhammad]

Ahsant qamar.
A group of 5 youths, including me, went to the media room today after dua kumayl.
We were told to go back on saturday as there were others who were not present within their team and it will be "better" if they are all there..

[smak786110]

interesting ...
Just to give some relief to the sisters.... and people concerned
I was ex-mediaroom team member , ...
- The ladies cameras are not switchable when the gents are on...so basically you have to switch off the whole gents system, in-order to on the ladies cameras...

- In the period in which i was in Mediaroom team, I never noticed any screen of ladies going on when we gents were present.

- Plus i don't see any possibility of a "guy" going alone in a mediaroom, and "checking out" ladies... as its a fully secured area + when mediaroom is open, there are whole team present or atleast few people.
Let alone 1 person....
Plus not all members have access to mediaroom.

For Future / Immediate Action
- If still there is concern about this, concerned people can try and find donors who can build another separate system for ladies only. A system like current one i think costs not less then $60,000, which am sure many of our "businessmen" will be more willing to help solve this issue.

and a quick solution -
For ladies, i think its better to be in hijab full time if they are still in doubts and suspicions...

Wa billahi tawfiq...
(the above are my own personal ideas and help, and no way concerned with Mediaroom....)

LASTLY, its very nice in having such youths in our community who are concerned and bring up such issues to attention... Hongera !

[Muhammad]

Thank you for your post.

About the switching on the camera - as my first post in this trend pointed out that when I visited the media room in ramadhan I saw the ladies camera on and was showing the Zarih in the ladies mosque. So I don't see how the switching off the gents to turn on the ladies helps..

About your period in the media room - clearly things have changed. I saw what i saw. And there was not 1 lady present that ramadhan night and I had a witness with me.

About finding donors - I can start a new forum for how our community spends funds. Is for example a chandelier worth millions better or putting the same money in providing fair-priced education to our children? I really don't see how 60,000$ are spent in a place where you need a simple camera ( one that does NOT rotate) and gives you maybe 2-3 X zooming power and not like 20X which really is NOT necessary. 60,000$ is a LOT of money and I am sure if the media room agrees to separate the system for ladies it will not cost that much.

Yes I agree with you that our ladies should be in hijab all the time. But together with that they have to feel safe (afterall they are in Mosque!). And they dont have to live with the feeling that someone might be watching us as there are rotating cameras everywhere around!

We can clearly agree to disagree :)

[smak786110]

Thank you for your post.

About the switching on the camera - as my first post in this trend pointed out that when I visited the media room in ramadhan I saw the ladies camera on and was showing the Zarih in the ladies mosque. So I don't see how the switching off the gents to turn on the ladies helps..

About your period in the media room - clearly things have changed. I saw what i saw. And there was not 1 lady present that ramadhan night and I had a witness with me.

About finding donors - I can start a new forum for how our community spends funds. Is for example a chandelier worth millions better or putting the same money in providing fair-priced education to our children? I really don't see how 60,000$ are spent in a place where you need a simple camera ( one that does NOT rotate) and gives you maybe 2-3 X zooming power and not like 20X which really is NOT necessary. 60,000$ is a LOT of money and I am sure if the media room agrees to separate the system for ladies it will not cost that much.

Yes I agree with you that our ladies should be in hijab all the time. But together with that they have to feel safe (afterall they are in Mosque!). And they dont have to live with the feeling that someone might be watching us as there are rotating cameras everywhere around!

We can clearly agree to disagree :)

Frankly speaking, I can see as per your reply there are some "major" mis-understanding on your side...!
For example-
Ladies camera which u saw is a "CCTV camera", which "doesnt zoom"...
But I dont want to argue and keep on posting and posting and posting...
Its better you go and sit with Mediaroom and clear it out...rather then making a havoc here !!

All in all, am no longer supporting any sides... am telling what I have seen in reality !

[qamar]

We were told to go back on saturday as there were others who were not present within their team and it will be "better" if they are all there..

are you serious? i thought they had said we could visit anytime?

did they allow you in the mediaroom or sent you away from outside?

I was ex-mediaroom team member , ...

i am glad you have posted your views. it would help us to understand the system and how it works

The ladies cameras are not switchable when the gents are on...so basically you have to switch off the whole gents system, in-order to on the ladies cameras...

so if i were in the media room and i wanted to switch on any camera (rotating or fixed) i wouldnt be able to do so unless i shut down all the cameras, projectors and screens in the gents side? if thats the case then how does the media room relay transmissions to ladies while having the same at gents side?

or you mean that to switch on rotating cameras in ladies side you will have to switch off only the rotating cameras in gents side?

if thats the case, what happens if a member switches on rotating cameras ladies side and doesnt switch off rotating cameras gents side?

In the period in which i was in Mediaroom team, I never noticed any screen of ladies going on when we gents were present.

evidently a brother(s) saw a ladies screen on when he entered media room. Were you in the media room always or sometimes?

About your period in the media room - clearly things have changed. I saw what i saw. And there was not 1 lady present that ramadhan night and I had a witness with me.

Ladies camera which u saw is a "CCTV camera", which "doesnt zoom"...

are you serious? ladies imambargah has cctv cameras???????? does the cctv camera rotate (as most do)? so gents cannot switch on the zoom cameras but watching ladies do salaam of zarih via cctv is ok?

- Plus i don't see any possibility of a "guy" going alone in a mediaroom, and "checking out" ladies... as its a fully secured area + when mediaroom is open, there are whole team present or atleast few people.
Let alone 1 person....
Plus not all members have access to mediaroom.

why cant one person who has the keys be alone in the media room? what stops them from opening the media room?

Plus not all members have access to mediaroom.

how many did at your time?

- If still there is concern about this, concerned people can try and find donors who can build another separate system for ladies only. A system like current one i think costs not less then $60,000, which am sure many of our "businessmen" will be more willing to help solve this issue.

i think its much easier than that. media room equiment (the cameras, wires etc) can be given to the ladies and a separate unit be made for ladies. and if need be i am sure a jamaat that can spend US$ 2.5 million + on imambargah renovation will not find it hard to raise $60,000 for the sake of safety of the veils of our womenfolk

For ladies, i think its better to be in hijab full time if they are still in doubts and suspicions

thats a good idea for the short term can we request an announcement to be made so ladies are aware and can make an informed decision while our institutions deal with this issue at a snails pace?

[Muhammad]

You don't have to keep posting and posting and posting... that was only your 2nd post in this forum.
We are not making a havoc, but the media room is creating a havoc inside our mosques!
And please avoid your sarcasm! If you cant reply properly then dont!

If one has ever been to the media room there are 2 doors. when one enters the first one there is a conference table and then if you enter the 2nd one are all the equipments and screens. So as soon as we entered the first door the guy came near the conference table and told us to come on saturday. So we could not have a glimpse at the screens.

I am not a tech genius but from what I can gather all we need is wiring and giving control of the cameras on the ladies side in a separate room ( perhaps withing the ladies mosque). they can be responsible to control the joystick and relay to the computer screen in the gents media room. So all in all it is NOT a very expensive investment. Afterall the Hijab of our women is at stake.

[abuali]

Br. Smak786110, for coming forward with your observations. Its through discussions that we can move forward as a community. For effective discussion and to avoid suspicion we need to have both the sides engaged with a common view to better ourselves.

In order to put this discussion in perspective, i would like to remind ourselves the following:

1. This discussion is about systems and and concern about possible abuse of systems installed in the media room. Its not about people.

2. I am sure we all appreciate the good things we get due to the hard work of the media room team such as dua translations. I am sure none of us are accusing any respectable member of abusing the system (unless of course undeniable proof of the same emerges) but we are discussing whether the system is abuse-able

3. If we come to a conclusion jointly that the systems are designed in a manner that does not allow abuse, we can all have a sigh of relief and move on.

4. If we come to a conclusion that the systems are abuse-able then we need to agree (speedily) on a way forward that eliminates any chances of future abuse. Any past abuse is between the abuser and his Lord.

I am quite sure each of the media room team member is concerned about the repercussions of a weak, abuse-able system, just as we are, since they are also concerned about the hijabs of their women.

We just need to leave aside any personal considerations and honestly answer the question:

Are the current systems installed throughout masjid and imambargah abuse-able?

The concern seems to be deepening because of a seeming lack of information about how the systems work. Once that has been detailed, we can decide between 3 or 4 above and move forward.

[abuali]

Please do vote on the poll at the top of this discussion to share your view on the presence of cameras in the ladies imambargah

The poll is:

What do you feel about the cameras installed in the ladies imambargah?

You may select 1 option

• I dont see any problem with them even if men can use them to see the ladies
• As long as the media room team is reliable, they wont abuse the cameras. So no problem
• I am ok with one camera fixed on the mimbar accessible only by the ladies from the ladies side. Anything more is unacceptable
• Why have cameras in the ladies side at all. No cameras, no opportunity given to shaitan to encourage abuse

[smak786110]

ABUALI- plz add in poll "Or we close Mediaroom forever"
As I see there are many people here in "ask" and dont want to understand any logical dialog and reality like "Mohamed" and they just believe in what they believe without looking into reality.

What I have spoken something of a personal viewpoint, of what I have seen myself...

* The cctv is focused on the screens at the ladies side, there are no other cctvs ... They dont rotate !
This is important for the team to monitor if the screens are projecting what is to be projected properly...

* The big camera which i said, is not possible to switch on except in order to switch off the whole gents system...Mediaroom has only 1 switch for ROTATING Camera, either its for plugged in for GENTS or its for LADIES... so you basically have to take out the gents plug in order to view ladies...that means cutting off all the input from gents side...

* I highly doubt the person who went to mediaroom saw a Rotating zoomable camera... It must be a cctv,
PLUS when didnt he just pinpoint out at that very specific moment to the team about it ?? and could have got clear REALITY picture of what is going on ?? ... I think that could have been better.

* Those who have access keys to mediaroom are not youngsters, they are married people with kids ! Some may have grand children also... can they look at the ladies ?...

anyway, plz visit your appointed time given to you by mediaroom(the team is most of the time very busy,so plz take appointment with them in meeting up) ... am sure, inshallah it will be taken care of !... The current chairman is gentleman, and can be helpful.

[Muhammad]

oh so i see you bothered to "post and post again"
From the bottom of my heart i feel for you.. no one has ever talked about closing the media room forever, its not even feasible and it will be a loss to our community.
No one is perfect, and surely the media room system can welcome some changes.
This is the exact state of us khojas, once somebody criticizes us and we jump into conclusions that you are unwanted and hated.
Allah will not change our status, unless we change ourselves (refer 13:11)
So if you claim the cctv does not rotate and is used to only see the screen how come in your previous post you said that the one showing the Zarih was the cctv..
I dont think you have read my posts well enough. i have already explained why i did not ask them immediately.
you think people with children and wives dont look at other women, then why the term extra-marital affairs?
Thanks for re-iterating on how busy they are.
Please smak, grow up. Allah dictates in the Quran that you should debate wisely and with fair exhortion ( refer 16:125)
As i advised you before if you cant be patient and reply to our queries without getting emotional, its better if you dont.

[smak786110]

oh so i see you bothered to "post and post again"
From the bottom of my heart i feel for you.. no one has ever talked about closing the media room forever, its not even feasible and it will be a loss to our community.
No one is perfect, and surely the media room system can welcome some changes.
This is the exact state of us khojas, once somebody criticizes us and we jump into conclusions that you are unwanted and hated.
Allah will not change our status, unless we change ourselves (refer 13:11)
So if you claim the cctv does not rotate and is used to only see the screen how come in your previous post you said that the one showing the Zarih was the cctv..
I dont think you have read my posts well enough. i have already explained why i did not ask them immediately.
you think people with children and wives dont look at other women, then why the term extra-marital affairs?
Thanks for re-iterating on how busy they are.
Please smak, grow up. Allah dictates in the Quran that you should debate wisely and with fair exhortion ( refer 16:125)
As i advised you before if you cant be patient and reply to our queries without getting emotional, its better if you dont.

I dont have any problem with the people who are concerned, in-fact if u see my first post I was happy that we have such high concerned youths/people in our community.
Unfortunately, i feel the way you reply back , you are determined to fight and nothing else!
You are the one whose not reading my posts properly and creating a havoc without seeing a reality.. neither you have met mediaroom people and ask for reality !
So its better I leave you with your fighting back comments on me.. as am not interested in all this !
I only tried to share what i know... if u ur with my points or without my points, i frankly dont care...

enjoying posting and fighting.. coz am outta here brother ! kh

[Muhammad]

In His name, the Most High
Alhamdullilah seven youths and seven members of the media room including the chairman and ladies cordinator met tonight and the issues discussed were as follows:
Explanation of the system - there are a total of 3 rotating cameras; 1 in the Gents Masjid, 1 in the Gents Imambara and 1 in the ladies Imambara. There is ONLY 1 controller for all the 3 cameras. So if someone wants to change controlling 1 camera to the other, s/he has to change the wire connection and it takes about 30 mins for stabilization process. There are CCTV cameras for each screen and projector to make sure the screen in down or up and if the relay is taking place. These CCTV cameras are FIXED and CANT be zoomed. They have very basic features just to serve the purpose. The camera at mehfil can only be controlled from the mehfil. There is recording in the gents but NO recording ever takes place on the ladies side(as there is no audio input). When there is a ladies function ONLY ladies are present in the media room.
The Jamaat including the chairman have come and do come randomly to check the systems and also the LMC has been assured by their visit that no abuse is possible.
So all in all, the system is well set with a buffer of 30 mins from switching from 1 camera to the other and they have been approached a few times to use a controller for each camera, but they have wisely refused.
For those concerned the relay during weddings, they DO NOT relay if a bridegroom asks them not to.
For those who asked as to why a rotating camera is needed in the ladies- there are some programs such as stage programs in which the rotation is useful.
The team has made those present quite satisfied with their system and responses.
Hats off to their work.
I hope i have covered most of the concerns, abuali if i have missed do point them out.