Evolution - the open LIE

Discuss general religious issues that affect all of us in our daily lives.
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 11 Jul 2009, 01:05

I remember enjoying my history and biology classes during my O-levels and being fascinated by the theory of evolution.

I remember the textbooks stating the theory as nothing but fact. In fact Tanzania, as mentioned in the history books, was the cradle of civilization, because it has the Australopithecus found at Olduvai Gorge! I also remember the teachers passing on the knowledge as purely scientific fact.

Even though I knew human life originated from Prophet Adam, I never gave it much thought, accepting what I was taught in school as nothing but fact. After all how could it have appeared in all the text books? It would be next to impossible for '1+1=3' to appear in text books repeatedly because it was not true. And therefor, being the naive schoolboy i was, I assumed the text books were always correct.

Upon doing further research imagine my shock at discovering that Evolution has been a conspiracy against belief in one Lord, Allah (swt)

Furthermore, imagine my shock at realizing that the theory of evolution by darwin, far from being a scientific fact, is no longer a theory either. All discoveries and scientific facts render it totally incorrect.

The question is how and why does it still appear in all international syllabus without studying and agreeing to which one cannot pass high school let alone college and university?

Lets use this forum to post the facts about Evolution so that we are not deceived by it
User avatar
Umm.aly
Ask Mod
Posts: 572
Joined: 14 Oct 2004, 00:19
Location: Dar-es-Salaam

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby Umm.aly » 24 Sep 2009, 13:40

One of the episodes of The Arrivals (somewhere in the 30's episodes i think) mentions how the evolution theory was Satan induced, clearly to brainwash men from believing in God's creation!
/\/\ |=|
User avatar
Muhammad Mahdi
Ask Addict
Ask Addict
Posts: 1883
Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 22:42

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 24 Sep 2009, 17:39

The arrivals and the satan conspiracy, doesn't sound all that true to me. But that discussion in its own place.

Evolution as proposed by Darwin, basically has 3 observations and 2 conclusions and in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that.
Image
The educated man has the right to manipulate the ignorant, if the ignorance of the of the ignorant is due to his own ignorance.
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 26 Sep 2009, 22:58

lets discuss the observations and conclusions and the current discoveries.

Please post these 3 observations and 2 conclusions, so we can analyze them.
User avatar
Muhammad Mahdi
Ask Addict
Ask Addict
Posts: 1883
Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 22:42

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 27 Sep 2009, 03:24

1. Organisms have a high reproductive rate.

2. Populations of organisms remain more or less the same.

3. Among organisms, there is a constant struggle for survival.

4. Individuals that possess favorable characteristics for their environment have a higher rate of survival and produce more offspring.

5. Favorable characteristics become more common in the species, and unfavorable characteristics are lost.
Image
The educated man has the right to manipulate the ignorant, if the ignorance of the of the ignorant is due to his own ignorance.
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 08 Oct 2009, 00:13

So, the conclusion, that man came from apes does not relate to his theory?
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 08 Oct 2009, 00:22

from my understanding of Darwins theory and from his book 'Origin of Species', i gathered that his theory painstakingly and in great detail, asserts that living things are not the products of an intelligent design, but of coincidental causes and natural processes.
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 08 Oct 2009, 00:29

I would recommend everyone to read a small book about evolution. I am pasting part of the introduction below:

Different concepts may come to mind when the theory of evolution is mentioned. Some people, mainly materialists who think that it is a scientifically proven fact, fiercely support it and, equally fiercely, reject all ideas opposed to it.

A second group consists of people who are not well-informed about the theory of evolution's claims. They are not particularly interested in it, since they do not realize the harm that Darwinism has done to humanity over the last century and a half. They see no problem with how it is imposed on people and fiercely defended, despite its scientific invalidity, for they have closed their eyes to what is going on.

Even if they know that this theory has lost all scientific credibility, they cannot take seriously those who still find it important, because they themselves do not consider it important. They consider it unnecessary to explain the theory's invalidity or to publish books and hold conferences on the subject, for in their eyes the theory is already "old hat" or passé.

A third group consists of those who, under the influence of materialist suggestion and propaganda, view this theory as scientific fact and look for a "middle way" between it and belief in God. They accept Darwinism's account of the origin of life word for word, yet try to build a bridge between the theory of evolution and religious belief by maintaining that this account operates under God's control.

In reality, each of these views is mistaken, for the theory of evolution cannot reasonably be portrayed as scientific fact, passed off as unimportant, or adapted to religion. As we shall see throughout this book, the theory's ideological framework consists of anti-religious thought put forward to strengthen atheism and to give it a firm foundation. Moreover, it is fiercely defended by people who have been persuaded by materialism, for it is constructed on materialist philosophy and offers a materialist commentary on the world. From the time it was first put forward by Charles Darwin and right up to the present day, it has brought humanity nothing but conflict, exploitation, war, and degeneration. Given this, it is essential that we acquire a sound understanding of the subject and launch a serious fight against it on the ideological level.


The book is Why Darwinism is Incompatible With the Qur'an by Harun Yahya and can be read for free online or downloaded for free from http://www.harunyahya.com/incompatible01.php
User avatar
Muhammad Mahdi
Ask Addict
Ask Addict
Posts: 1883
Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 22:42

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 08 Oct 2009, 05:32

As I mentioned, Darwin's observations and deduction which form the basis of the modern evolutionary theory seem to be ok. If you disagree, pls point out where exactly.

I have read Harun Yahya's book and while some points are good, I would not entirely agree with him.

The belief that because of Darwin, Hitler persecuted the jews or Marxism was developed is like associating Islam with terrorism. Both are based on misconceptions.

Would like to know your thoughts
Image
The educated man has the right to manipulate the ignorant, if the ignorance of the of the ignorant is due to his own ignorance.
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 13 Oct 2009, 13:07

You have an interesting view.

I would point out that the root of all social evil (evil that man does on other men) is due to disbelief in the Supreme Being and Supreme Justice (or weakness in belief in HIM). Anyone who can understand that Allah is his/her Lord and to whom he/she will be answerable would not be able to commit atrocities against His creation. (i.e. if Darwinism promotes atheism, then it promotes evil through disbelief in Allah) However, we will divert from the topic at hand. So perhaps this can be discussed elsewhere.

So as far as Darwins observations are concerned, could you please point me to a reference in Darwin's work (Origin of Species) where the observations are mentioned by him as you posted.

I could not find the exact wordings that you have posted, thats why I am asking.

Or are these summaries prepared by others from Darwin's work? If so, a link to the same will help me analyze it further.

From what you have posted, I will comment on the following:

4. Individuals that possess favorable characteristics for their environment have a higher rate of survival and produce more offspring.


Define what is meant by characteristics. Does it represent qualities such as strength, beauty, agility. Or physical qualities such as webbed feet, wings, beak, etc. Or both? As far as I know Darwin went to a lot of trouble describing his observations in detail.

5. Favorable characteristics become more common in the species, and unfavorable characteristics are lost.

Meaning that an ape (one species) cannot become a man (another species)? So, was he saying the adaptation is only possible within a species and that one species does not transform to another? If so, why is the 'textbook picture' of ape turning into man attributed to his theory?
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 13 Oct 2009, 13:28

Here i copy-paste the premise on which Darwins theory is based:

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - The Premise
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is the widely held notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers -- all related. Darwin's general theory presumes the development of life from non-life and stresses a purely naturalistic (undirected) "descent with modification". That is, complex creatures evolve from more simplistic ancestors naturally over time. In a nutshell, as random genetic mutations occur within an organism's genetic code, the beneficial mutations are preserved because they aid survival -- a process known as "natural selection." These beneficial mutations are passed on to the next generation. Over time, beneficial mutations accumulate and the result is an entirely different organism (not just a variation of the original, but an entirely different creature).


ref: http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 13 Oct 2009, 13:35

Here is a summary of Darwin's theory

Darwin's theory of evolution is based on key facts and the inferences drawn from them, which biologist Ernst Mayr summarised as follows:[1]

* Every species is fertile enough that if all offspring survived to reproduce the population would grow (fact).
* Despite periodic fluctuations, populations remain roughly the same size (fact).
* Resources such as food are limited and are relatively stable over time (fact).
* A struggle for survival ensues (inference).
* Individuals in a population vary significantly from one another (fact).
* Much of this variation is inheritable (fact).
* Individuals less suited to the environment are less likely to survive and less likely to reproduce; individuals more suited to the environment are more likely to survive and more likely to reproduce and leave their inheritable traits to future generations, which produces the process of natural selection (inference).
* This slowly effected process results in populations changing to adapt to their environments, and ultimately, these variations accumulate over time to form new species (inference).


re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Ori ... 27s_theory

In other words, Man and a worm and an algae are descendent from the same ancestor. Or, the first man was a descendant of a lesser species which adapted itself over time to form a new species (i.e. man)

Now, unless I have misinterpreted Darwin grossly, his theory is twisted!
User avatar
Muhammad Mahdi
Ask Addict
Ask Addict
Posts: 1883
Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 22:42

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 13 Oct 2009, 19:11

hasin wrote:
So as far as Darwins observations are concerned, could you please point me to a reference in Darwin's work (Origin of Species) where the observations are mentioned by him as you posted.

I could not find the exact wordings that you have posted, thats why I am asking.

Or are these summaries prepared by others from Darwin's work? If so, a link to the same will help me analyze it further.


The summaries are made by other biologists and evolutionists. There is slight difference between the summaries but they are more or less the same.
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Charles-D ... lution.htm

Hasin wrote:From what you have posted, I will comment on the following:

4. Individuals that possess favorable characteristics for their environment have a higher rate of survival and produce more offspring.


Define what is meant by characteristics. Does it represent qualities such as strength, beauty, agility. Or physical qualities such as webbed feet, wings, beak, etc. Or both? As far as I know Darwin went to a lot of trouble describing his observations in detail.

Characteristics which enable them to obtain food, live and reproduce successfully. Depending on the environment, it could be slight colour variation, strength, speed etc. Why? Whats the importance of you specifically commenting on this?

[quote="Hasin]
[quote]5. Favorable characteristics become more common in the species, and unfavorable characteristics are lost.[/quote]
Meaning that an ape (one species) cannot become a man (another species)? So, was he saying the adaptation is only possible within a species and that one species does not transform to another? If so, why is the 'textbook picture' of ape turning into man attributed to his theory?[/quote]

A collection of characteristics over several millions of years may ultimately lead to a new species.

eg. You are sick with a bacterial disease. The doctor gives you strong antibiotics; take for 3 days.
You stop after 2 days. So what happens, some resistant bacteria will be left in your body. These will reproduce to give rise to more resistant bacteria. Next time, even a complete dose of antibiotics will not work.
The bacteria have micro-evolved in a period of days. If this is done over millions of years, i is very possible to get a different specie altogether.
Image
The educated man has the right to manipulate the ignorant, if the ignorance of the of the ignorant is due to his own ignorance.
User avatar
Muhammad Mahdi
Ask Addict
Ask Addict
Posts: 1883
Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 22:42

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 13 Oct 2009, 19:14

hasin wrote:Here i copy-paste the premise on which Darwins theory is based:

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - The Premise
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is the widely held notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers -- all related. Darwin's general theory presumes the development of life from non-life and stresses a purely naturalistic (undirected) "descent with modification". That is, complex creatures evolve from more simplistic ancestors naturally over time. In a nutshell, as random genetic mutations occur within an organism's genetic code, the beneficial mutations are preserved because they aid survival -- a process known as "natural selection." These beneficial mutations are passed on to the next generation. Over time, beneficial mutations accumulate and the result is an entirely different organism (not just a variation of the original, but an entirely different creature).


ref: http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/


That website is anti-evolution so the reference does not hold. It does not provide any reference for he statement.

Even then, what do you find wrong with that?
In other words, Man and a worm and an algae are descendent from the same ancestor. Or, the first man was a descendant of a lesser species which adapted itself over time to form a new species (i.e. man)

Now, unless I have misinterpreted Darwin grossly, his theory is twisted!


Please explain the twis [up]
Image
The educated man has the right to manipulate the ignorant, if the ignorance of the of the ignorant is due to his own ignorance.
User avatar
abuali
Ask Admin
Posts: 3664
Joined: 30 Sep 2004, 19:33
Location: Dar es Salaam
Contact:

Re: Evolution - the open LIE

Postby abuali » 13 Oct 2009, 21:47

Muhammad Mahdi wrote:
Hasin wrote:From what you have posted, I will comment on the following:

4. Individuals that possess favorable characteristics for their environment have a higher rate of survival and produce more offspring.


Define what is meant by characteristics. Does it represent qualities such as strength, beauty, agility. Or physical qualities such as webbed feet, wings, beak, etc. Or both? As far as I know Darwin went to a lot of trouble describing his observations in detail.

Characteristics which enable them to obtain food, live and reproduce successfully. Depending on the environment, it could be slight colour variation, strength, speed etc. Why? Whats the importance of you specifically commenting on this?

[quote="Hasin]
[quote]5. Favorable characteristics become more common in the species, and unfavorable characteristics are lost.[/quote]
Meaning that an ape (one species) cannot become a man (another species)? So, was he saying the adaptation is only possible within a species and that one species does not transform to another? If so, why is the 'textbook picture' of ape turning into man attributed to his theory?[/quote]

A collection of characteristics over several millions of years may ultimately lead to a new species.

eg. You are sick with a bacterial disease. The doctor gives you strong antibiotics; take for 3 days.
You stop after 2 days. So what happens, some resistant bacteria will be left in your body. These will reproduce to give rise to more resistant bacteria. Next time, even a complete dose of antibiotics will not work.
The bacteria have micro-evolved in a period of days. If this is done over millions of years, i is very possible to get a different specie altogether.[/quote]


So in other words, an algae or a single cell organism mutating and evolving over millions of years can become human? Is that what you are implying?

Return to “General Religious Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests