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By xx_atika_xx
#8835
xx_atika_xx wrote:
If not, then perhaps Br.Muhammed Mahdi, you would like to raise this issue with Aga Sistani (May Allah(s.w.t) grant him a long life) and clarify its haram/halal status which would also give alot of the answers to the ongoing debate.
Perhaps we should clarify this with a Marja. Perhaps Br.Muhammed Mahdi, you would kindly volunteer by posting this question to our Marja (May Allah(s.w.t) grant him a long life) on everyone's behalf as you have brought this matter into our attention.
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By qarrar
#8836
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:I assure you that I know the basics.
As long as these basics satisfy you that is good enough at one level but not all. Now as this evidence surrounding your claim that Coke contains alcohol is highly dubious, the only way forward that I can see is that the coke would be haraam on you and not everyone else. It would be become haraam on everyone else if became clear that there was a good chance that it did contain alcohol and frankly speaking you haven’t made a good enough case to convince me or any other posters on this thread.

Sis Atika’s suggestion above is a good one, perhaps you could act on it. I hope this will put an end to this long and unnecessary saga.
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By Muhammad Mahdi
#8857
Qarrar I do not understand what you require as evidence.

1. I posted the original recipe which states coke contains both vanilla extract and alcohol.

2. I posted references to purported (assumed, claimed) recipes (by professional chemists) which state that coke contains alcohol and vanilla extract.

3. I provided references stating that Coca Cola company is the worlds largest consumer of natural vanilla extract.

4. I posted the commercial method of preparing vanilla extract, which according to The U.S. Food and Drug Administration requires at least a certain quantity of alcohol to be used.

Is this not enough?
With such alarming evidence you still want to ask the marja?
Islam and the marja both forbid the consumption of alcohol!

Let me remind you of what I had prophecized in the beginning of this thread.
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:...I see no point in arguing with you because I can see you dont want to accept the truth.
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By Muhammad
#8859
okay....so this is wher this has reached...in another world of doubts..
the intial query was is red bull allowed?i couldnt find the answer when i strolled through the responses..
so anywas LETS ASSUME coke is allowed..doznt it contribute to the israelis?
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By qarrar
#8882
Well its heartening to know that you convinced. The doubts that gnaw me as to your claim do not arise from seeing these recipes. If you look at the growth of globalisation, competition in the open business market and fearsome protection of intellectual property rights by companies then you will understand that it is next to impossible that the recipe of Coca Cola is available on Wikipidia. My thoughts and arguments arise from these roots hence I am still not convinced.

As for asking the marja, then let him deliver the final blow as to whether coke is halaal or haraam because I doubt we will be able to settle this amongst ourselves.
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:Well, qarrar will tell you that there is no evidence to support that as well.
Indeed.
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By Muhammad Mahdi
#8890
Qarrar wrote:Have you heard of the notion that the Muqalid is the Mujtahid.

In this time of Ghaiba it is me who is ultimately liable to the Imam of the time and Allah and there isn’t a Nayab of the Imam who can take my responsibility.

You don’t seem to get the point do you Exclamation Agha e Sistani is not the only Marja alive at this moment in time
You were very reluctant about following the mujtahid regarding the boycott. And now suddenly you want to ask him?
qarrar wrote:Do you have the word hypocrisy in your dictionary?
Could I use this against you?
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By qarrar
#8892
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:You were very reluctant about following the mujtahid regarding the boycott. And now suddenly you want to ask him?
Because even in that thread from which you choose to quote me, it was Aga e Sistani’s office that gave a meaningful explanation about the whole boycott debacle. Please recheck the question I put to Agha’s office and response given in relation to the same.
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By Muhammad Mahdi
#8900
Well its heartening to know that you convinced. The doubts that gnaw me as to your claim do not arise from seeing these recipes. If you look at the growth of globalisation, competition in the open business market and fearsome protection of intellectual property rights by companies then you will understand that it is next to impossible that the recipe of Coca Cola is available on Wikipidia. My thoughts and arguments arise from these roots hence I am still not convinced.
Forget the recipe being available. The recipe with alcohol, was just one evidence which can be refuted.
What about vanilla extract used? HUH?
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By qarrar
#8902
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:What about vanilla extract used? HUH?
Don’t you get it; you haven’t answered my concerns and are frolicking from point to point. I will put the question to the Marja myself and post the response in due course.
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By Muhammad Mahdi
#8903
qarrar wrote:
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:What about vanilla extract used? HUH?
Don’t you get it; you haven’t answered my concerns and are frolicking from point to point. I.
it is you who are evading my questions. If the recipe is not authentic, forget it!

But what about the extract used? Please answer this question of mine.
qarrar wrote: will put the question to the Marja myself and post the response in due course
unfortunately, it is not the marja himself who answers the questions sent to him.
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By qarrar
#8906
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:But what about the extract used? Please answer this question of mine.unfortunately, it is not the marja himself who answers the questions sent to him.
Well I have little faith in the evidence you provide for the extract part for your argument as-well. Now coming to asking the marja, yes I know he doesn’t answer each and every question himself, but it’s his appointed wakils who do. Now if this arrangement is not suitable for you are you proposing that we take your say as the final word on the matter?
Last edited by qarrar on 22 Feb 2007, 02:30, edited 1 time in total.
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By Muhammad Mahdi
#8909
Please tell me what info I lacked about the vanilla extract.
Well I little faith in the evidence you provide for the extract part for your argument as-well
I am sure I provided at least four reliable references. if that does not convince you, you have your mind closed. :cry:
Now if this arrangement is not suitable for you are you proposing that we take your say as the final word on the matter?
No. I am not an aalim. All I have done is compile some information which should change your outlook.

I dont want to write to "Agha" because I have recieved many answers from Agha's websites which go against Agha's Tawdheeul Masai l (Book of Laws). therefore i personally do not trust the websites.
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By qarrar
#8911
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:... information which should change your outlook. I dont want to write to "Agha" because I have recieved many answers from Agha's websites which go against Agha's Tawdheeul Masai l (Book of Laws). therefore i personally do not trust the websites.
Is there a compulsion that I change my outlook? I think you will be rewarded more if you change the view point of the 6000 or so members of our community resident in your hometown rather than myself.

Agha's Tawdheeul Masail was published in 1994 a long thirteen years ago. As you and I both know he is fallible like ourselves and has a right to change his viewpoint on matters. For example he changed his ruling on the sighting of the moon from back then so anything you find with regards to ascertaining the new moon in the Tawdheeul Masail would now be incorrect. One other point worth noting is that he himself has never on any occasion discouraged the use of these websites associated with him.
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By Muhammad Mahdi
#8916
Is there a compulsion that I change my outlook? I think you will be rewarded more if you change the view point of the 6000 or so members of our community resident in your hometown rather than myself.
I have tried and changed the outlook of some, but unfortunately, most of the people's views are similar to yours.
why don’t we just go and live in the caves

regarding the validity of the tawdheeul mael, if you want to discuss it, please open another thread, as we'll be going off topic on this one.

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