DANCING

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Postby Muntazir » 04 Nov 2006, 07:29

Bismillahir-Rahmaanir-Rahim

As Salaamu 'aleykum

Not sure, it is better you findout. I wrote because it's allowed in Iran on these occasions.

Thank you.
as-Salaamu 'aleykum warahmatullah
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Postby Syed Kazim » 04 Nov 2006, 07:32

I am currently referring to the book:


Jurisprundence made Easy

According to the Edicts of His Eminence Grand Ayatullah as-Sayyid Ali as-Husaini as-Seestani



By: Abdul Hadi al-Hakim
Translated By: Najim al-Khafaji
Published by: Imam Ali Foundation
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Postby Syed Kazim » 04 Nov 2006, 07:40

Page 318 of the above-mentioned book:

On another topic, can the woman perform any dancing act for her husband for fun?
- Yes, she can


And what about her dancing before other men?
- She is not allowed to dance before men other than her husband, [rather, infront of other women too]


And man's dancing in public?
- [It is not permissible].


On happy occasions, men and women take to clapping. Is it permissible?
- It is permissible, so long as it did not lead to a sinful act
Last edited by Syed Kazim on 04 Nov 2006, 08:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Syed Kazim » 04 Nov 2006, 07:41

Plz refer to the book for more guidance!

And ALLAH knows the Best!
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Postby Syed Kazim » 04 Nov 2006, 09:38

I think we should take this to a more active topic!
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Postby Syed Kazim » 04 Nov 2006, 09:54

Muntazir wrote:Not sure, it is better you findout. I wrote because it's allowed in Iran on these occasions.


I think i miised this point, lol!

it being allowed in Iran does NOT make it Halaal
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Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 04 Nov 2006, 19:31

Muntazir wrote:The use of the drum is allowed on the occasion of a wedding, wedding feast (walimah) and both days of Eid. This is concerning the drum which has no tinkle. The drum which has the tinkle is not permitted to be used.

Some traditions even quote that it is allowed to play drums on the wedding night.

AND ALLAH KNOWS BEST


The reference you gave for this is not clear. Whose fatwa is it?
Any historical reference. Imam sayings etc?

Muntazir wrote:Then why

Syed Kazim

the playing of drums is allowed ONLY if its in the war songs, or military parades n that sort of things!


To make it simple, my question is - If the Aimmah have said that playing Drums is corrupting and completely Haraam, then why are we even allowed to play them on any occasions? What can be the reason here?


Thats what I want to know. Why are we allowed, if we are allowed? Does anyone have any historical reference?
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Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 04 Nov 2006, 19:33

Syed Kazim wrote:
Muntazir wrote:Not sure, it is better you findout. I wrote because it's allowed in Iran on these occasions.


I think i miised this point, lol!

it being allowed in Iran does NOT make it Halaal


Very true! :o
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Postby Syed Kazim » 04 Nov 2006, 19:47

:lol: ...atleast i have someone supporting me!

Muntazir wrote:
Not sure, it is better you findout. I wrote because it's allowed in Iran on these occasions.


I think i miised this point, lol!

it being allowed in Iran does NOT make it Halaal
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Allah (s.w.a) is the support to all.

Postby Muntazir » 06 Nov 2006, 00:18

Bismillahir-Rahmaanir-Rahim

As Salaamu’ aleykum

I come back with my same resources which I had explained earlier on the whole philosophy behind the rulings of Halaal Music. But this time, with discussing and approving it with our respected scholar, Sheikh M. Alidina, just a few hours ago at the Masjid after Morning prayers.

As I begin,

Sheikh Alidina strictly said, “You cannot conclude or give a fatwa based on a single tradition/ Hadith. You CANNOT conclude something to Haraam or Halaal by just a single tradition/ Hadith. It has a whole process before it has given its clear meaning”. So, by presenting these traditions/ Hadith against Music (including of Drums), you are simply raising a big confusion, (for all of us), as I had explained it earlier.


I Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006

536. Music that is permissible is the music that does not entail entertainment in gatherings held for that purpose. Forbidden music is the music that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings.

537. The expression “the music or the song that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings” does not mean that the music or the song’s tune amuses the heart or changes the mental state because there is nothing wrong in it. The expression actually means that the person listening to the music or the song’s tune —especially if he is an expert in these matters— can distinguish that this tune is used in the entertainment and amusement gatherings or that it is similar to the tunes used therein.

548. Question: Is it permissible to listen to religious songs in praise of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) that are accompanied with music?

Answer: Songs (al-ghinã’) are harãm absolutely. However, singing praise [of the Prophet or the Ahlul Bayt] that is sung with a good tune but is not in ghinã’ form is without problem.

As for the music, it would be allowed, if it is not suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings.



Is an authenticated ruling from our respected Ayatullah Sayyed Ali Sistani; he has mentioned it very clear for us to understand, and many of our Ulamaas have the same rulings. However, for your satisfaction, Sheikh Alidina explains Music to be divided into two categories which are:


1. Music that can fall under Haraam category and
2. Music which falls under Halaal.

1. Music that can fall under Haraam category is the type of Music which is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings.

2. Music which falls under Halaal category is the type of Music which does not entail entertainment in gatherings.


According to what I had explained earlier,

In simple words, if you can identify the type of music used in discos, pubs and bars, by the first moment you listen to Music and the first thing that comes to your mind is the same type of music used in those places (discos, pubs and bars), then the music is of a Haraam type and therefore it becomes Haraam for you to listen them.

Using the same method, if you listen to the Music and it doesn’t give you a corrupt feeling in your head, it is then permissible for you to listen.


Sheikh Alidina fully agreed to this and supported my point.

However, I’m talking about observing the Halaal Music and not the Hollywood/ Bollywood type of Music, because they are pretty much obvious to be Haraam.

And those who do not give false evidence.” (25:72)


Now let us understand from the other point of view.

Sheikh Alidina said,

1. If for example the Hadiths are authenticated and prove the prohibition of some instruments; it is not necessary that the prohibition is a fixed statement. It can be reflecting to a particular area, or prohibiting on a certain view or happening on that particular time.

2. Quoting a little on it doesn’t explain the whole tradition/ Hadith. It needs to be understood the whole situation that took place on that particular time and for what reason and why did the tradition/ Hadith had to be act upon.

3. In simple, just as each Qur’anic verse has different meanings, applies the same, each tradition/ Hadith has different meanings and way of understanding. The only difference is Qur’anic verses have more meanings.

4. Tradition/ Hadith don’t make anything Halaal/ Haraam before taking a whole process which is something we don’t need to be worried about. It’s our Ulamaas who have been given the responsibilities to work upon and show us a direction.

5. If you think you can figure out the Haraam/ Halaal rulings by quoting a few traditions/ Hadiths without performing any serious process undertaken, then you’re smarter than our Ulamaas.

…and it goes on…

My previous points:

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 Post subject: Very Sensitive

Thank you for providing us with these beautiful ahadiths.

If you study the ancient Islamic History, you will find a lot that you haven’t come across and it’s wide, wide enough to answer all your questions OR to leave you “mad-confused” (and this is the reason we have Scholars for answering to all our questions). They study the History; they go through each and every Hadith and authenticate them by searching the truth from all corners. They use the help of the Holy Qur’an as well and that’s how they give rulings.

I’m not arguing on this subject, nor am I being against with the teachings of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s), no, I’m simply trying to explain the other meaning that I understand from these ahadith.

If playing of Drum was completely Haraam, then why is it used in War Songs and Scholars allow it? If Drums are Haraam then why do the Iranis play Drums inside the Haram (where Bibi Masooma Qum (s.a) is located) on some occasions, and no scholar has condemned this act? Are all these scholars going against our beloved Prophet’s (s.a.w.w) and Imam’s (a.s) teachings? Including Ayatullah Sistani, Imam Khomeini (may his soul be blessed), Ayatullah Khamenei and many other scholars? Are these Scholars not aware of these Ahadith?

Music is an art, and there are plenty of instruments made by Muslims… if we study further.

Music can influence you, and it can as well cure. Islam is not a religion of HARAAM! HARAAM! And only HARAAM! No brother, Islam is a beautiful religion with enough freedom given to all its followers (the only difference is how you use it). I or you have no rights to conclude what’s Haraam and what’s Halaal. It is best for us to leave it to our scholars or we study Islam from its depth.

It is best for us to search all these answers from our Scholars and not to confuse ourselves. I strongly request all of you to study furthermore from a Scholar because this has become a very sensitive issue, one wrong statement and it can lead many to a big sin. (And that’s the reason I’ve not been providing a lot of explanation from my point of view, not because it could only be wrong, but because I’m still a first year student in the Hawza). I, therefore recommend you, as I do to myself to study furthermore and come with a better explanation. And as for the time being, I suggest you differentiate between good and evil from the knowledge you have, for yourself.


Thank you.

“Allah (s.w.a) has given us enough knowledge to differentiate between good and evil”



You posted:

Religious songs accompanied by music, halal?

I dont undertstand. Aimmah have made clear that music is HARAAM!

Most nasheeds, qasida with music contain flutes and drums, whch makes them all haraam.

What do you understand from these tradtions? Is music halal?

Aimmah have said it is haraam. They have made it crytsal clear.
The books I quoted were authentic, some of shias most authentic books.

I extracted these traditions from Ayatallh Dastheghaib's Book.

What more can we need to convince us?



Once again, Sayyed Ali Sistani completely disagrees with you, OR, you disagree with him:

535. Music is an art that has spread far and wide during these days. Some varieties of this art are permissible while others are forbidden; therefore, it is permissible to listen to the first while it is forbidden to listen to the latter.

536. Music that is permissible is the music that does not entail entertainment in gatherings held for that purpose. Forbidden music is the music that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings.

537. The expression “the music or the song that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings” does not mean that the music or the song’s tune amuses the heart or changes the mental state because there is nothing wrong in it. The expression actually means that the person listening to the music or the song’s tune —especially if he is an expert in these matters— can distinguish that this tune is used in the entertainment and amusement gatherings or that it is similar to the tunes used therein.

538. It is permissible to visit places where halãl music is being played, and it is permissible to listen to it as long as it is halãl.

Permissible music is the music that is not suitable for such gatherings, even if it does not soothe the nerves like the martial music and that played at funerals.

Answer: Songs (al-ghinã’) are harãm absolutely. However, singing praise [of the Prophet or the Ahlul Bayt] that is sung with a good tune but is not in ghinã’ form is without problem.

As for the music, it would be allowed, if it is not suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings.

552. Question: Is it permissible to listen to revolutionary songs accompanied by sounds of piano, lute, drum, wind-pipe, and electronic piano?

Answer: If the music accompanying it is that which is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings, it is not permissible to listen to it. (Otherwise?)

562. Question: Is it permissible for a wife to dance for her husband with music or without music?

Answer: It is allowed as long as dancing is not accompanied with harãm music.


My following Post:

The use of the drum is allowed on the occasion of a wedding, wedding feast (walimah) and both days of Eid. This is concerning the drum which has no tinkle. The drum which has the tinkle is not permitted to be used.

Some traditions even quote that it is allowed to play drums on the wedding night.

Sheikh Alidina asked me to look upon the rulings allowing of Music on the above occasions. However, it might not be allowed, but it might as well be.


I later then wrote:

Not sure, it is better you find out. I wrote because it's allowed in Iran on these occasions.


Syed Kazim responded:

I think i miised this point, lol!

it being allowed in Iran does NOT make it Halaal


Muhammad Mahdi added:

Very true!


Syed Kazim ended with:

...atleast i have someone supporting me!



I reply to this:

Very true, it being allowed in Iran does NOT make it Halaal. But … It does not as well make it Haraam until and unless we have failed to find a relevant ruling from Ayatullah Sistani, which I will be looking up to insha’Allah.

I hope this is fine and clear now. If you STILL have further-more arguement on this subject, I would kindly request you to discuss it with Sheikh Alidina for guidance as soon as possible.


Thank you.


[urlwww.dartabligh.shiamedia.org/Audio/Eng/Alidina/Social_Fasting_Music_Haraam_Philosophy1.rm[/url]
http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/menu/2/books/7/inside/53.htm
http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/menu/2/books/1/entertainment.htm
http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/menu/2/books/2/inside/54.htm
http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/menu/2/books/1/entertainment.htm
Last edited by Muntazir on 06 Nov 2006, 00:23, edited 2 times in total.
as-Salaamu 'aleykum warahmatullah
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Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 07 Nov 2006, 18:25

Thank you Muntazir. Unforyunately, I did not only provide one hadith but gave abt 10.
As for saying some types of music is allowed, this too was prophecized by the holy Imam when he said,
" And you shall see that music will be so prevalant that no one will dissuade others nor will he find in himself the need to do so. And you shall see that music would be openly played even in the two sanctuaries.( Makkah and Madinah)"
(Mustanad naraqi)
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Postby Muntazir » 07 Nov 2006, 20:39

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahim

As Salaamu 'aleykum

My dear brother in Islam, I seriously don't know how muc more to explain you, or else I'm not explaining to you the way I should be. I did not only talk about the Hadiths that are supposed to be studied, but I as well explained the study of the hadiths.

However, my explanations were clear, and I strongly suggest you solve this misunderstanding with a scholar. I now end my discussion.

Thank you.

I would like to discuss more on these questions, but I request you contact Sheikh Alidina for better explanations.

Was- Salaamu 'aleykum warahmatullahi wabarakatu
as-Salaamu 'aleykum warahmatullah
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Postby Muhammad » 13 Nov 2006, 20:50

In his name, The Most High
From what i have been taught in madrassa...
there r 2 types of music
1)haraam
2)halaal
6 million dollar qn..(now price must hav gone up to 7 million...)..lol..what is haraam n what is allowed?
3 categories..
1)Instruments
2)Lyrics
3) Environment

Instruments
the instrumnets should be ones which are allowed (from other rulings)
Lyrics
the lyrics shudnt contain wrong message which leads to deviation or temptations (worrdly)

Environmnent
can be played only when same sex is present

ALL the 3 conditions should be fulfilled. If ALL 3 are fulfilled then it is halaal music. EVEN if 1 is not then the MUSIC IS HARAAM
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Re: DANCING

Postby Beheshti » 17 Dec 2007, 11:32

Thanks

Bro. Muntazir Pradhan

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