Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

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Muhammad Mahdi
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Muhammad Mahdi » 12 Dec 2010, 13:14

(salam)

Sorry didn't mean to offend u [up]

The oil of the skin combines with dust. So in theory, it is still dust one is prostrating upon.

Re the scrubbing with msasa, isnt that disrespect to the holy sand?
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Mazhar » 12 Dec 2010, 15:52

Salaam,

From Ayatullah Sistani`s web version of islamic laws:

1069. It is necessary that there should be nothing between the forehead of the person offering prayers, and the thing on which he offers Sajdah. If the mohr (sajdagah) is so dirty that the forehead does not reach the mohr itself, the Sajdah is void. But if only the colour of mohr has changed, there is no harm.

I think that the dark stuff we see on the mohr is merely the changing of color, and not dirt, which incidentally has many meanings among which are -
•soil: the part of the earth's surface consisting of humus and disintegrated rock
•the state of being covered with unclean things

Perhaphs the Agha when mentioning dirt intends the use of the 2nd meaning, which may imply that the mohr being covered by soil should be okay, as the mohr is soil?

Ref for Dirt meaning- http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rl ... d=0CBYQkAE
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby abuali » 12 Dec 2010, 17:54

Thanks Mazhar for digging out this info. Your interpretation sounds very logical. Perhaps if someone has the Arabic version of his laws we can find out the Arabic word he has used that has been translated as dirty.

There are many groups going for ziyarat. Maybe someone can clarify the issue with Ayatullah Sistani (may Allah grant him a long healthy life).

I have noticed every few months the mohr at mosque are cleaned. I am told the cleaning process is done by rebuilding the mohr.
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Muntazir » 13 Dec 2010, 14:15

In the name of His Glorified Names.

'aleykum as-Salaam.

Not a problem akh. It was a reminder for myself.

Thanks for the explanation. I will try to get in touch with Ayatullah Sistani's office to clarify the issue and get back insha'Allah. But in the mean time, I will try to find out from Sh. Razi or Sh. Alidina, as they are the DataBank of the Fatawas from Sayyid.

Jazakallah.
as-Salaamu 'aleykum warahmatullah
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Muntazir » 13 Dec 2010, 19:05

In the name of He Who Knows.

as-Salaamu 'aleykum

I've found the following so far:

سؤال: آیا اگر مهری رنگش از حالت عادی تغییر کند و قهوه ای تیره بگیرد دیگر نمی توان بر رویان نماز خواند ؟ اگر نمی شود لطفا حد تیرگی آن را بیان نمایید.

پاسخ: باید اطمینان پیدا شود که پیشانی به خاک می رسد و لایه ای از چرکی بین آن دو حائل نمی شود .

Translation:

Question: If the color of the Mohr changes its color to Dark Brown, can we pray on it? If not, then kindly explain the amount of its darkness.

Answer: One should be assured that his forehead reaches the dust and the layer of dirt is not a barrier between them [the forehead and the dust/ place on which sajdah is allowed].

سؤال: با توجه به اينكه خواندن نماز بر مهر سياه شده جايز نيست لذا مهرهاى سياه را چه بايد كرد ؟

پاسخ: اگر جرم نداشته باشد سجده اشكال ندارد و مى توانيد آن را روى بخارى بگذاريد كه سياهى برود و يااينكه آن را حك كرده و خاك آن را دفن كنيد.

Translation:

Question: Since praying namaaz on a Mohr which has turned black is not permissible, what can one do with it?
Answer: If it doesn’t contain germs then prostrating on it is not a problem and one can put it on heat or fire so that the blackness goes away otherwise break it into dust and burry it in the ground.
as-Salaamu 'aleykum warahmatullah
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Muntazir » 13 Dec 2010, 20:09

In the name of 'Allah.

as-Salaamu 'aleykum.

I wrote earlier:

And as we've studied in Fiqh, nothing should be a barrier between your forehead and the place of sajdah, not even few of your hair.


Correction:

سؤال: وجود مقدارى از موى سر بين پيشانى ومهر درهنگام سجده چه حكمى دارد درصورتيكه به اندازه معمول پيشانى روى مهرقرار گرفته باشد واصولا چه مقدار از پيشانى بايد روى مهر باشد قرار گرفته باشد و اصولا چه مقدار از پيشانى بايد روى مهر باشد.

پاسخ: اشكال ندارد. همين كه سجده بر پيشانى صدق كند كافى است

Translation:

Question: What is the law when some hair is between the forehead and the Mohr at the time of Sajdah while some part of the forehead is also touching the Mohr without the hair in between them...

Answer: It's not a problem. It's enough when the sajdah applies to the forehead.

سؤال: اگر موی سر بين پيشانی و مهر قرار بگيرد (مثلا نيمی از مهر را بپوشاند) آيا سجده درست است؟

پاسخ: اشکال ندارد.

Translation:

Question: If hair from our head comes between our forehead and the mohr (for example it covers half the mohr), is our sajdah correct?

Answer: It's not a problem.

At the time when we were in the Hawza, our Fiqh teacher had told us what I had mentioned before. However, Ayatullah Sistani has many changes and it requires us to go back and study the Islamic Laws once again and note down the changes.

Those of you who can read and understand Farsi should enter the Farsi section and click on توضيح المسائل جدید - http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=3&bid=23

Thank you all for this section as alhamdulillah we're benefiting from it.

Jazakallah!
Last edited by Muntazir on 13 Dec 2010, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
as-Salaamu 'aleykum warahmatullah
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Muntazir » 13 Dec 2010, 20:21

In the name of 'Allah.

as-Salaamu 'aleykum

This can solve problems for the sisters:

سؤال: اگر به صورتمان كرم سفيد كننده يا پودر بزنيم آيا هنگام سجده كه پيشانى بايد به مهر بخورد اشكال ندارد؟

پاسخ: اشكال ندارد چون پيشانى به مهر مى رسد.

Translation:

Question: If we apply cream for whitening the face [foundation if I'm not mistaken] or powder, isn't it a problem at the time of Sajdah when the forehead has to touch the mohr?

Answer: It's not a problem, because the forehead reaches on the mohr.
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Muntazir » 15 Dec 2010, 04:48

In the name of One Who is All Perfect!

Salaamun 'aleykum.

A brother from Qom [whose name I will not mention] has replied in regards to the Mohr:

about the mohr, the ruling is that when alot of prostration is done, the dirt sweat from the forehead creates a layer, such that it blocks the fore-head from reaching the clay of the mohr. . in such a case it is not allowed to prostrate on it, because it will be said that you havent prostrated on clay, rather on a layer of dirt.
but it should be known that sometimes only the colour changes. . mere change in colour doesnt invalidate your prostration, rather, when so much sweat and dirt settles that it creates a layer on top of the mohr, blocking the skin of the forehead from touching the mohr. .
i dont have the correct references, but this is the ruling as i remember. .
you can easily remove the layer by scraping it off, untill the clay can be seen once again. .


I think one needs to study the mohr and see it if the change is with the colour or dirt.

Sometimes one should also be careful with the dark mohr as they contain germs and it can give scary pimples with pus in them...

The Turbah from Kerbala also depends where it's from. However, if you wish to discontinue using your mohr then as per the fatwa one should burry it. One can also throw it in the sea.

The best way to be safe is to always carry one's own mohr. It also has great thawaab for it.

Keep us in your du'as.
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby abuali » 15 Dec 2010, 20:03

(jazakallah)

Alhamdulilah we are all learning from this.

How can one differentiate between change in colour and dirt or sweat?
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby Muntazir » 16 Dec 2010, 17:21

In the name of One who Listens.

Salaamun 'aleykum.

When you see the mohr changing to slightly dark from its colour then it's normal. One can heat the mohr to ensure if the change of colour is from water... but try to find out mohr which has been used for months and or even years and you won't even want to use it... that's dirt! And it should be scrapped away before using it again.

One can find many of these mohr in madaaris in Qom. I'll ask one of my friends to take a picture of them and send it to me so that I can share it with you, insha'Allah.
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Re: Sajda on Mohr which has inscriptions

Postby abuali » 08 Feb 2011, 13:39

it will be nice if we can take a photo (even from a mobile cam) and post it here of the mohrs we have that have changed colour or become dark and try and identify the difference.

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