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The sad first month of the Islamic calendar during which the family of the Holy Prophet were faced with a great ordeal and tragedy.
User avatar
By shabbirh
#1209
Aliyah wrote:S/a

Well i feel that ladies dont deserve to participate in the juloos especially our community ladies. The main reason offcourse is HIJAB. The media and western influence has really spoiled ppl over here together with me.

Allah bless u all
k/h
In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

While I feel that you might have a valid point Sister Aliyah, I feel that perhaps you are being overly rash in the reasons you cite.

While the Media and general Western Influence are possibly to blame, I feel that other factors - that are not related to the Media or Western Influence are also to blame.

Psychologically, humans are pretty basic, generally if you tell someone - at a pre-mature level - that something is forbidden, for a while they will accept what you say, but as they begin to mature (i.e. reach puberty), you will find that they are more curious, wanting to know why black is black and not white, why this is this way and not that way, why something is haraam, and why something is halaal.

Unfortunatley, our community, hasn't risen to this challenge, as the freedom and environment has required the youngsters to question further and further, our elders have - except until very recently and that in only a few cases - generally been dogmatic about the way things are.

They have declared that white is white, but they haven't explained that white is white because it is not black - or even attempted to elaborate or engage the mind of the minor.

The minor, especially in this day and age, has had access to various resources, possibly ranging from the library to the internet to do their own research, and have come back with conclusions drawn from reading many things, and have in some cases, deduced that white is infact not white but a combination of the three primary colours.

Since their "elders" (so to speak), have been unable to engage in this discourse with the minor, the minor starts to - following only one single victory - question everything that they elder has taught them.

The slipery slope is then traversed.

Secondly, another potential reason is mindless dogma in terms of religion and social structuring and issues. We are taught many things - most of which are simply hammered into our heads (thankfully that is changing but not if one examines in depth, we are now being hammered with more information, not more useful information neccessarily, just more information - there is a fundamental and large difference between the two), we are told to pray, to fast, that Imam Husayn(A) died in Kerbala, we are told that he died for Islam, we are told that Yazeed was a terrible person, etc, etc, etc, however, the core of the message is generally left untouched.

We have people comming from all over the world - (well actually mainly from the Indo-Pak region but for effect all of the world sounds nice ;)) - to "teach" us about Islam and Kerbala, and all these lovely things, however, they come - talk about something, without understanding the situation in our community, get lots of praise (and money in many cases - especially if they are "good"), and job done, they go back, and we are left without anything. Sure maybe we had a couple of nice "debates", maybe we had a "kewl lecture", maybe we thought the speaker was "very buff" - but in essense as far as Islam is concerned we are not really that much better off.

Why?

The reason is simple, because Islam doesn't permeate our very existance as it should, sure culturally it might do, guys'll have beards, be the first in line at prayers in the Masjed, gals'll wear hijab (sadly most show their chests off while wearing the hijab, unintentionally off course, but that itself shows something - as we will see as I conclude), etc, but we're essentially secular. Our internal system of governance, the system that governs our entire existance (no not the Government, I'm talking about internal governance of ourselves - on an individual basis :)), is not revolving around Islam, but around the perception of Islam, as given to us - dogmatically in most cases - by our "elders" and parents.

Now, about the hijab issue, the reason why a lot of our sisters and brothers have appalling hijab, while they might have beards, and they might wear headscarves, their hijab is still pretty pathetic, is simply because they haven't developed the most important element of Hijab, which is the state of mind.

Now comming back to the point made by my respected Sister Aliyah;
Well i feel that ladies dont deserve to participate in the juloos especially our community ladies. The main reason offcourse is HIJAB. The media and western influence has really spoiled ppl over here together with me.
I feel that certain events, such as Julus, Dua Kumayl, gatherings to discuss Islamic Concepts, without dogma or any pre-conceived illusions, but open discussions, on many subjects - much like what we have here on Ask, but in real life - a BBS, while an excellent medium to foster debat and discussion, has it's limitations - certain points cannot be made and issues cannot be clarified as easily as they can in a real world scenario.

There needs to be a real world forum, of guys and gals, where they can sit - together - naturally maintaining the respect and decorum of any respectable mixed gathering, and discuss, openly and without any fear of being reprimanded these subjects which are essentially destroying our Ummah. They can clarify issues that have bugged them for years, vent pent up frustration at various things, and have their fears and hopes vocalised and listened to - this therepy will assist our youth in moving forward.

Naturally, there is a risk in such an exercise, that some of the more unscrupulous amongst us will use such an occasion as a flirters paradise, and will attempt to flirt with others or "pick up a chick", or whatever, these things happen, and it is upto the organisers of said event to curb such activity - however, if the discussion is kept at a level where there is total participation, then while initially prevailent, over a period of time, as interest gains and more and more issues that have previously been kept under the carpet are voiced and dealt with, such incidents will reduce, and the level of the group will increase.

As issues of Islamic Thought get resolved, concepts are made clear, people are re-introduced to the Usul ad-Din, without the Furu ad-Din being made a priority - because in reality, the Usul are the priority - without Usul the Furu are meaningless - one only prays - for example, because one believes in Allah - i.e. Tawheed. If one doesn't believe in Tawheed, or understand Tawheed, or have an intense love for Allah that a true understanding of Tawheed would engender, then even praying becomes parrot fashion and pointless.

Our community need to re-focus on Allah, and on the Usul, if we understand the Usul, we will understand the Islamic line on situations in the world, and the obligations that the Furu puts on us, will become automatic and will no longer seem a burden.

I hope I haven't confused anyone in anyway, that's not my intent, I want to try and fix this community, which is our community, we need to remove the multitude of vices that are killing us, vices such as extra-marital affairs, pre-marital affairs, sloth, avarice, envy, greed, etc.

The seven deadly sins, are still the seven deadly sins, and they are truely killing our community - we must act, if we are to protect the next generation, otherwise, like Toy Soldiers, we will all fall down, and it will be over.

Comments/Rebuttals would be appreciated.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir
User avatar
By Muhammad
#5635
salaamz
regardin the juloos of ladies we cud note that it wasnt done last year...
wot abt this year?was it discussed?we had all year....
awaitin response..
regards
Mohamed
User avatar
By Tayyaba
#5658
Salaam Alaikum..

I had discussed about this with quite a few older ladies in the jamat, they are totally not for it...they said if u want to do julus we should attend the bilal julus..which is not a problem..

so any one has ny idea when is the ladies bilal julus?
User avatar
By Muhammad
#5659
the bilal juloos is always sumtime afer ashura juloos n is held on a sunday...i m nt sure of the date this year bt it shud b announced in respective mosques...
regards
Mohamed
User avatar
By Zaheer
#8943
well ladies juloos is not a bad idea but a strict respect shud be there in both ladies n gents n there shud be sumfin ike a partition 2 avoid ladies looking 2 man and vice versa in order to keep shaytan away.

Rgdz..
DUNYA NA RAHEGI MAGAR ISLAM RAHEGA
SHABBIR BEHERHAAL TERA NAAM RAHEGA
By Mazhar
#8946
Salams
Jus wondering y is goin for juloos with bilal ok and not with our own community?
User avatar
By Muhammad Mahdi
#8949
Mazhar wrote:Salams
Jus wondering y is goin for juloos with bilal ok and not with our own community?
Maybe because with bilal its during the day and with our own community its during the night. Safety? :roll:
By Mazhar
#8951
Tayyaba
Did the ladies give u a reason for not being able to join juloos?
User avatar
By Tayyaba
#8956
Main reason is because some girls in our community do not observe proper HIJAB, the other things said by older ladies was that guys and girls will start looking at each other instead of doing proper julus :!:
User avatar
By kulsham
#8970
it is better women should not take part in juloos.... they should sit at home n watch the live telecast. THATS IT. Period. (end of )
User avatar
By kulsham
#8971
and when does this bilal juloos take place?
User avatar
By Muhammad Mahdi
#8976
hasin wrote:
it is better women should not take part in juloos.... they should sit at home n watch the live telecast. THATS IT. Period. (end of )
Seconded!

And just to add...more men should take part!
Why?
By xx_atika_xx
#8978
I think the juloos procession needs to be participated by both the men and women.

True, it is easier said than done and there are alot of pre-requisites that come before it especially for tthe women. Hijab being the most important one of them all. But a reminder that hijab is as much a man's resposibility as it is the woman's.

I think people tend to forget the real reasons we participate in the Juloos. It is to raise awareness of the message of Kerbala and in places like Europe which do not have predominant muslim communities it can be used as a tool to generate more awareness about the true principles of Islam. I am sure everyone is aware of the stereotypical image of a muslim today and I think the Juloos can be used as a strong tool to draw people's attention to the real Islam.

Let us not forget the influential role of Bibi Zainab (a.s) in propagating Islam after the Ashura. I dont see why a muslim woman dressed in proper Hijab standing behind a man in Juloos holding the banner of Imam Hussein (a.s) should be a problem.

And while we are discerning the participation of woman in the Juloos, let us look at the places that allow women to participate. Iran being the most prominent one. Other communities that I am aware of are Stanmore and Peterborough. In peterborough for instance, after the Juloos which stops in the town centre, a male and female representative make a speech. And from my perception, a muslim women dressed in complete Hijab talking in the middle of a busy town centre is so much more influential.

I say this because the status of a woman in Islam has come under intense scrutiny from the International media. Who can forget the recent controversies regarding face veil comments by Jack Straw and film Submission by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and her latter comments about the status of women in Islam?

I think we need to educate people about the role of women in Islam. You'd be amazed at the preconcieved notions people hold about us. And lets face it. Everyone's curious now.

And I personally think that a muslim woman taking a stand and talking about her status would be really hitting the point home than a muslim man going on about women
rights in islam.

I think the annual Juloos is a forum for the muslim women to take a stand and to explain to people that she is not opressed but liberated. What better forum can we get than the Juloos? And which better role model can we use than Bibi Zainab (a.s)? Every single time the tragedy of Kerbala comes up, alongside the martyrs (Peace be upon them) do we not hear about Bibi Zainab (a.s)? Her crucial role in propagating the message of Islam and Kerbala?

I think we need to consider this in the context of what we are trying to achieve in a Juloos. An annual procession that garners so much public media and attention surely can be used to propagate a wider message to all. And I think it is the role of not only the men but the women to participate in this propagation.
By Mazhar
#8981
Well put sis atika
As for those who think ladies should sit at home n watch it on tv could u pls give a reason?

https://youtu.be/-3CI0FBr5ss?si=UNYS9HXtS24Gbr-P

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