- 29 Jan 2005, 21:44
#1209
Salaams
While I feel that you might have a valid point Sister Aliyah, I feel that perhaps you are being overly rash in the reasons you cite.
While the Media and general Western Influence are possibly to blame, I feel that other factors - that are not related to the Media or Western Influence are also to blame.
Psychologically, humans are pretty basic, generally if you tell someone - at a pre-mature level - that something is forbidden, for a while they will accept what you say, but as they begin to mature (i.e. reach puberty), you will find that they are more curious, wanting to know why black is black and not white, why this is this way and not that way, why something is haraam, and why something is halaal.
Unfortunatley, our community, hasn't risen to this challenge, as the freedom and environment has required the youngsters to question further and further, our elders have - except until very recently and that in only a few cases - generally been dogmatic about the way things are.
They have declared that white is white, but they haven't explained that white is white because it is not black - or even attempted to elaborate or engage the mind of the minor.
The minor, especially in this day and age, has had access to various resources, possibly ranging from the library to the internet to do their own research, and have come back with conclusions drawn from reading many things, and have in some cases, deduced that white is infact not white but a combination of the three primary colours.
Since their "elders" (so to speak), have been unable to engage in this discourse with the minor, the minor starts to - following only one single victory - question everything that they elder has taught them.
The slipery slope is then traversed.
Secondly, another potential reason is mindless dogma in terms of religion and social structuring and issues. We are taught many things - most of which are simply hammered into our heads (thankfully that is changing but not if one examines in depth, we are now being hammered with more information, not more useful information neccessarily, just more information - there is a fundamental and large difference between the two), we are told to pray, to fast, that Imam Husayn(A) died in Kerbala, we are told that he died for Islam, we are told that Yazeed was a terrible person, etc, etc, etc, however, the core of the message is generally left untouched.
We have people comming from all over the world - (well actually mainly from the Indo-Pak region but for effect all of the world sounds nice ) - to "teach" us about Islam and Kerbala, and all these lovely things, however, they come - talk about something, without understanding the situation in our community, get lots of praise (and money in many cases - especially if they are "good"), and job done, they go back, and we are left without anything. Sure maybe we had a couple of nice "debates", maybe we had a "kewl lecture", maybe we thought the speaker was "very buff" - but in essense as far as Islam is concerned we are not really that much better off.
Why?
The reason is simple, because Islam doesn't permeate our very existance as it should, sure culturally it might do, guys'll have beards, be the first in line at prayers in the Masjed, gals'll wear hijab (sadly most show their chests off while wearing the hijab, unintentionally off course, but that itself shows something - as we will see as I conclude), etc, but we're essentially secular. Our internal system of governance, the system that governs our entire existance (no not the Government, I'm talking about internal governance of ourselves - on an individual basis :)), is not revolving around Islam, but around the perception of Islam, as given to us - dogmatically in most cases - by our "elders" and parents.
Now, about the hijab issue, the reason why a lot of our sisters and brothers have appalling hijab, while they might have beards, and they might wear headscarves, their hijab is still pretty pathetic, is simply because they haven't developed the most important element of Hijab, which is the state of mind.
Now comming back to the point made by my respected Sister Aliyah;
There needs to be a real world forum, of guys and gals, where they can sit - together - naturally maintaining the respect and decorum of any respectable mixed gathering, and discuss, openly and without any fear of being reprimanded these subjects which are essentially destroying our Ummah. They can clarify issues that have bugged them for years, vent pent up frustration at various things, and have their fears and hopes vocalised and listened to - this therepy will assist our youth in moving forward.
Naturally, there is a risk in such an exercise, that some of the more unscrupulous amongst us will use such an occasion as a flirters paradise, and will attempt to flirt with others or "pick up a chick", or whatever, these things happen, and it is upto the organisers of said event to curb such activity - however, if the discussion is kept at a level where there is total participation, then while initially prevailent, over a period of time, as interest gains and more and more issues that have previously been kept under the carpet are voiced and dealt with, such incidents will reduce, and the level of the group will increase.
As issues of Islamic Thought get resolved, concepts are made clear, people are re-introduced to the Usul ad-Din, without the Furu ad-Din being made a priority - because in reality, the Usul are the priority - without Usul the Furu are meaningless - one only prays - for example, because one believes in Allah - i.e. Tawheed. If one doesn't believe in Tawheed, or understand Tawheed, or have an intense love for Allah that a true understanding of Tawheed would engender, then even praying becomes parrot fashion and pointless.
Our community need to re-focus on Allah, and on the Usul, if we understand the Usul, we will understand the Islamic line on situations in the world, and the obligations that the Furu puts on us, will become automatic and will no longer seem a burden.
I hope I haven't confused anyone in anyway, that's not my intent, I want to try and fix this community, which is our community, we need to remove the multitude of vices that are killing us, vices such as extra-marital affairs, pre-marital affairs, sloth, avarice, envy, greed, etc.
The seven deadly sins, are still the seven deadly sins, and they are truely killing our community - we must act, if we are to protect the next generation, otherwise, like Toy Soldiers, we will all fall down, and it will be over.
Comments/Rebuttals would be appreciated.
With Salaams and Dua's
Shabbir
Aliyah wrote:S/aIn His Name, the Most High
Well i feel that ladies dont deserve to participate in the juloos especially our community ladies. The main reason offcourse is HIJAB. The media and western influence has really spoiled ppl over here together with me.
Allah bless u all
k/h
Salaams
While I feel that you might have a valid point Sister Aliyah, I feel that perhaps you are being overly rash in the reasons you cite.
While the Media and general Western Influence are possibly to blame, I feel that other factors - that are not related to the Media or Western Influence are also to blame.
Psychologically, humans are pretty basic, generally if you tell someone - at a pre-mature level - that something is forbidden, for a while they will accept what you say, but as they begin to mature (i.e. reach puberty), you will find that they are more curious, wanting to know why black is black and not white, why this is this way and not that way, why something is haraam, and why something is halaal.
Unfortunatley, our community, hasn't risen to this challenge, as the freedom and environment has required the youngsters to question further and further, our elders have - except until very recently and that in only a few cases - generally been dogmatic about the way things are.
They have declared that white is white, but they haven't explained that white is white because it is not black - or even attempted to elaborate or engage the mind of the minor.
The minor, especially in this day and age, has had access to various resources, possibly ranging from the library to the internet to do their own research, and have come back with conclusions drawn from reading many things, and have in some cases, deduced that white is infact not white but a combination of the three primary colours.
Since their "elders" (so to speak), have been unable to engage in this discourse with the minor, the minor starts to - following only one single victory - question everything that they elder has taught them.
The slipery slope is then traversed.
Secondly, another potential reason is mindless dogma in terms of religion and social structuring and issues. We are taught many things - most of which are simply hammered into our heads (thankfully that is changing but not if one examines in depth, we are now being hammered with more information, not more useful information neccessarily, just more information - there is a fundamental and large difference between the two), we are told to pray, to fast, that Imam Husayn(A) died in Kerbala, we are told that he died for Islam, we are told that Yazeed was a terrible person, etc, etc, etc, however, the core of the message is generally left untouched.
We have people comming from all over the world - (well actually mainly from the Indo-Pak region but for effect all of the world sounds nice ) - to "teach" us about Islam and Kerbala, and all these lovely things, however, they come - talk about something, without understanding the situation in our community, get lots of praise (and money in many cases - especially if they are "good"), and job done, they go back, and we are left without anything. Sure maybe we had a couple of nice "debates", maybe we had a "kewl lecture", maybe we thought the speaker was "very buff" - but in essense as far as Islam is concerned we are not really that much better off.
Why?
The reason is simple, because Islam doesn't permeate our very existance as it should, sure culturally it might do, guys'll have beards, be the first in line at prayers in the Masjed, gals'll wear hijab (sadly most show their chests off while wearing the hijab, unintentionally off course, but that itself shows something - as we will see as I conclude), etc, but we're essentially secular. Our internal system of governance, the system that governs our entire existance (no not the Government, I'm talking about internal governance of ourselves - on an individual basis :)), is not revolving around Islam, but around the perception of Islam, as given to us - dogmatically in most cases - by our "elders" and parents.
Now, about the hijab issue, the reason why a lot of our sisters and brothers have appalling hijab, while they might have beards, and they might wear headscarves, their hijab is still pretty pathetic, is simply because they haven't developed the most important element of Hijab, which is the state of mind.
Now comming back to the point made by my respected Sister Aliyah;
Well i feel that ladies dont deserve to participate in the juloos especially our community ladies. The main reason offcourse is HIJAB. The media and western influence has really spoiled ppl over here together with me.I feel that certain events, such as Julus, Dua Kumayl, gatherings to discuss Islamic Concepts, without dogma or any pre-conceived illusions, but open discussions, on many subjects - much like what we have here on Ask, but in real life - a BBS, while an excellent medium to foster debat and discussion, has it's limitations - certain points cannot be made and issues cannot be clarified as easily as they can in a real world scenario.
There needs to be a real world forum, of guys and gals, where they can sit - together - naturally maintaining the respect and decorum of any respectable mixed gathering, and discuss, openly and without any fear of being reprimanded these subjects which are essentially destroying our Ummah. They can clarify issues that have bugged them for years, vent pent up frustration at various things, and have their fears and hopes vocalised and listened to - this therepy will assist our youth in moving forward.
Naturally, there is a risk in such an exercise, that some of the more unscrupulous amongst us will use such an occasion as a flirters paradise, and will attempt to flirt with others or "pick up a chick", or whatever, these things happen, and it is upto the organisers of said event to curb such activity - however, if the discussion is kept at a level where there is total participation, then while initially prevailent, over a period of time, as interest gains and more and more issues that have previously been kept under the carpet are voiced and dealt with, such incidents will reduce, and the level of the group will increase.
As issues of Islamic Thought get resolved, concepts are made clear, people are re-introduced to the Usul ad-Din, without the Furu ad-Din being made a priority - because in reality, the Usul are the priority - without Usul the Furu are meaningless - one only prays - for example, because one believes in Allah - i.e. Tawheed. If one doesn't believe in Tawheed, or understand Tawheed, or have an intense love for Allah that a true understanding of Tawheed would engender, then even praying becomes parrot fashion and pointless.
Our community need to re-focus on Allah, and on the Usul, if we understand the Usul, we will understand the Islamic line on situations in the world, and the obligations that the Furu puts on us, will become automatic and will no longer seem a burden.
I hope I haven't confused anyone in anyway, that's not my intent, I want to try and fix this community, which is our community, we need to remove the multitude of vices that are killing us, vices such as extra-marital affairs, pre-marital affairs, sloth, avarice, envy, greed, etc.
The seven deadly sins, are still the seven deadly sins, and they are truely killing our community - we must act, if we are to protect the next generation, otherwise, like Toy Soldiers, we will all fall down, and it will be over.
Comments/Rebuttals would be appreciated.
With Salaams and Dua's
Shabbir