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The sad first month of the Islamic calendar during which the family of the Holy Prophet were faced with a great ordeal and tragedy.
By Habari Mpya
#11572
band-e-ali wrote:salaam alaykum

..there are a majority of individuals that ACCTUALLY UNDERstood what he ment when he did clearify the Hz muhsin Isue in the Public!
Asaalaam Alaykum,

you mention that the shaykh had clarified the issue of Hz Muhsin (AS) in public? This is news to me from you
As far as i know and even you know the said discussion had taken place between the shaykh and few momineens and thereafter there has been no clarifcation in public. As for the email which was posted here by sister fatimah (it was not done by shaykh)
brother hasin disagrees with it "being an after thought!" its natural to react in a way like that in anger! i realy dont know why u wrote somthing like this!- ever thought of the fact that ssheikh might be reading this aswell?- if the whole khoja shia isthinasheri jamaat has acess to this then? dont u think he needs an apology from you? if not physically then even if you do say it here? it still makes a diffrence?
I understand the shaykh reads this.
as for the apology i think it should start from the shaykh to the few momineens he had discussed with, then others will follow because the shaykh has never contacted the people who , as per him, had misunderstood the discussion.
im quote'ng this and i want to make it really clear!

Sheikh Zaid did NOT say that muhsin was not exzistant!- its is a miss understanding caused by other people( i dont wish to mention names) and its not ffair that its coming down on sheikh like a ton of bricks.

Were you present when the shaykh had discussed this issue? have you contacted the other side to know what he had said or what they had understood?
You say you are a witness to all this, i did not understand what you meant by being witness to all this.
I had told you in my previous replies also do not get excited dear brother
it is through discussions that people will understand each other.

Dont you think it would be advisable for the shaykh and the few momineens plus we (you, me, and others who are really interested) to have a sitting and discuss this matter for sorting the confusion?

May Allah through the grace of imam zamana (atfs) provide us with good guidance towards the truth.

wassalaam
User avatar
By band-e-ali
#11576
salaam alaykum habari,

u seem to be a very stuburn man! and it seems that there is somthing that you are after!- I sit still and CHEW ON my fingers as i read your post! all i have to say is "ASTAGHFIRUL LLAAH"- you acttuly want a sheikh to come appologise to you? and u think thats what we call respect!- tell me one thing that the sheikh should apologise to you for?
- keeping silent?
- Writting a MAIL?
- For sitting and taking all these digusting words and degrading attitude from people like you?

i dont see that the sheikh has gone WRONG ANYWHERE? IT is not his FAULT THAT 1/100000 people (you) did not understand HIS SIMPLE english?. as for the email that u DOUBT! THAT SHEIKH wrote?
As for the email which was posted here by sister fatimah (it was not done by shaykh)


i am in personal contact witht he MAN! AND .. this mail CAME FROM ME!! SO i m sure that it is not a fake! and it has come from him directly!. WE(me sister fatemah n the sheikh) dont lie!!.
Were you present when the shaykh had discussed this issue? have you contacted the other side to know what he had said or what they had understood?
You say you are a witness to all this, i did not understand what you meant by being witness to all this.
I had told you in my previous replies also do not get excited dear brother
it is through discussions that people will understand each other.
you mention if i was presnnt? i was there and plus . before i do utter anything. i dont wish to regret. so i think over it and do my little bit of research! which then allows me to post it online with CONFIDENCE!. i dont just babble on with no stop.
Dont you think it would be advisable for the shaykh and the few momineens plus we (you, me, and others who are really interested) to have a sitting and discuss this matter for sorting the confusion?
according to my previour posts. i had mentioned that i could give u the contact of sheikh so u can speak to him yourself?.. u refused! and now ur asking for a meeting? brother are u wanting to confuse me or play mind games with me? im sorry but ur playing hard ball with ur words. set your mind to somthing please!.

i have one more question.
the dar es salaam jamaat is a masive jamaat!-acording to my statistics i have a number of 1,000000, (im guessing just to use a figure) and out of that number there is only 2 people that have no shame but to point fingures at him? why did the rest remin silent?. arethey not as brave as u are?

and just to corrext one mroe thing?
at the end of each post u write?
May Allah through the grace of imam zamana (atfs) provide us with good guidance towards the truth
where do u get the extra A from in the end of zaman.? its Imam e- Zaman (Atfs)

wasalaam
kahnum S
By zafar
#11785
To be frank and fair certain issues said by the sheikh in jumaa prayers were very wrong.

We have no right to judge forms of azadari as wrong or right even the marja don't do that.
By zafar
#11797
Our way of responding to the sheikh lecture was cruel.

We misquoted him several times as way of revenge.

There is no doubt he is a lover of ahlul bait.

He has a different angle of viewing history.

To boycott him in namaaz was not correct.

This is no way to treat a guest after inviting him.

We should be very careful of our akhlaq as it represents our religion.
Last edited by zafar on 16 Feb 2008, 00:14, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By abuali
#11799
Every now and then comments and posts from brothers/sisters on the forum bring me a lot sadness. It disheartens me how we are so quick to jump to conclusions about the belief of another brother/sister and as a result of which we end up slandering the other knowingly or unknowingly. I pray hard that it is unknowingly

I try and interfere as little as possible with posts, but i have decided to point out certain posts and issues that have brought sadness to me (like i have done in other threads before). I leave it upon the author to read and decide if the sadness I felt was justifiable. And if he/she feels it was justified, then i request the author to then edit his/her post.

As always, i keep quiet for sometime hoping that the authors would realise and edit their posts without my interference. (which also gives me time to reflect whether my own feelings of sadness are justified)

We have to keep in mind that we are all lovers of ahl bayt. We may have different ways of showing our love. But we can not claim to be a lover if end up accusing other lovers of ahl bayt on impulse.
band-e-ali wrote:salaam alaykum habari,

u seem to be a very stuburn man! and it seems that there is somthing that you are after!- I sit still and CHEW ON my fingers as i read your post! all i have to say is "ASTAGHFIRUL LLAAH"- you acttuly want a sheikh to come appologise to you? and u think thats what we call respect!- tell me one thing that the sheikh should apologise to you for?
- keeping silent?
- Writting a MAIL?
- For sitting and taking all these digusting words and degrading attitude from people like you?
Brother band-e-ali, i think your above comment was not justified in my opinion. Br. habari mpya has his own opinion, and we should respect those. Apologizing does not lower the status of the person who says 'sorry' rather it shows that he/she has a humble quality. (i am 100% for apologizing from both sides)

The last sentence was a personal attack which destroys the validity of a productive discussion
band-e-ali wrote: i have one more question.
the dar es salaam jamaat is a masive jamaat!-acording to my statistics i have a number of 1,000000, (im guessing just to use a figure) and out of that number there is only 2 people that have no shame but to point fingures at him? why did the rest remin silent?. arethey not as brave as u are?
I think you may have misquoted the numbers. As per my knowledge (from the census committee), the jamaat is 8,000 strong at a maximum.

I have personally spoken to many who have the same complains and grievances with regards to the issue. Hence its not only 2 people. We need to discuss and work out the differences in a befitting manner without accusations or pointing fingers so that we can be proud on the day we will face our aimmah (and not ashamed of our akhlaq)
band-e-ali wrote:and just to corrext one mroe thing?
at the end of each post u write?
May Allah through the grace of imam zamana (atfs) provide us with good guidance towards the truth
where do u get the extra A from in the end of zaman.? its Imam e- Zaman (Atfs)

Once again, an unnecessary post. Zamana is urdu for the current era. I am sure you cant be doubting the belief of another brother over such a petty issue.
User avatar
By Muhammad Mahdi
#11833
Shaykh Zayd is an aalim who is an expert on hadith. he has studied ten years in this field.
He was a substitute resident Sheikh for those in Dar es Salaam.
By smma59
#11837
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:Shaykh Zayd is an aalim who is an expert on hadith. he has studied ten years in this field.
He was a substitute resident Sheikh for those in Dar es Salaam.
salam

thanks for information..ten years are not sufficient for issuing fatwa. read his post..send it to your marja e taqleed before following and spreading if you know rulings of taqleed..

we do not consider any 10 yrs learned scholar as an AALAM, marja or mujtahid.
ws
By smma59
#11838
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:Shaykh Zayd is an aalim who is an expert on hadith. he has studied ten years in this field.
He was a substitute resident Sheikh for those in Dar es Salaam.
salam

thanks for information..ten years are not sufficient for issuing fatwa. read his post..send it to your marja e taqleed before following and spreading if you know rulings of taqleed..

we do not consider any 10 yrs learned scholar as an AALAM, marja or mujtahid.
ws
User avatar
By band-e-ali
#11855
salaam alaykum

it has been long!,

br habari: i did not mean it in any harsh way! never the less i dont hesitate to say im am sorry if i have offended u with any harsh words over this exchange of views!.i am here to learn and i just felt that Sheikh Zaid was very inocent and that too much fitna was eeffecting the whols jamaats views towards him and the scenario just happen to get worse! every day there was a diffrent thing that was said about him -from being wahabi to continuing to allowing pornography? its abit insane. but i still apologise to have hurt u and got carried away with my emotions.

brother hasin: my digits in my posts are just a figure that i have used .. i have no research on how many individulas there is in dares salaam jaamaat! but all i know is it is big! so i just have a exajurated guess. pls re read my post ( i have put it in bracket it i am not mistaken)

maas salaam
By hasanrizvi
#11873
Salaams to all Muhhib-bane Mohammed ale mohammed a.s.

May Allah bless all those who loves ahlulbait a.s. and those who grief on the sad events of them.
When Imam Zainul Abdeen a.s. was brought to court in Sham. Yazeed l.a. started with sentence like Allah had dishonored you…. And he continues. He got the best of replies from our Imam but no history tell us that anyone who was with Yazeed l.a. had turned from his side or openly opposed him among not less than 500 officials. My point is even when one is sure that something wrong was said , why people trying to protect instead of opposing. Well I had already pointed out what was done still favors follows, I don’t see reason to discuss further all had been answered from the pulpit and I witnessed people from this forum were present.

1. I was asked to provide riwayah regarding Veil Snatching when I provided the most well known and Authentic Khutba of Bibi Zainab a.s. in Sham, instead of looking into it , I was countered with the literal meaning of bare headed and Arabic word with face exposed underlined , while the same sheikh said faces exposed. Anyways I have all the Arabic Text from Lahuf, Riazul Masayab and many other authentic books. I hadn’t found the discussion was with open minds, so there is no need to provide here as I was provided with the reference of qam qam zarakkha where it states that Imam Hussein a.s. and his Ashaab did ghusl with salty water. Did we believe that thirsty of three days will do ghusl but not drink coz of salt neways no need to discuss everyone knows the truth. For Hasin ,Mukhtarnama itself suggests life history of hz mukhtar, in tabligh committee you will find the video version recited by Zakir. Also there is one more video of master of Ilme Rejal (who judge the authenticity of Riwayah) who clearly narrate the event of Bibi Zainab a.s. in Court of Yazeed l.a. and his wife came running to give her veil to Bibi Zainab a.s. on seeing her bare headed and Yazeed l.a. put his coat over her wife’s head. Maulana Akmal recited yesterday about Bibi's Bare head was he wrong? maulana from Nairobi on 20th of Imam recited was he wrong. He even mentioned the crying of blood as tears by Marja with reference while Sheikh said to my question of Imam E zamana a.j.t.f.s. in ziarat as he should weep blood instead of tears for Imam a.s. as metaphor, was it right?
2. Regarding Zanjeer, Qama and khandaq , I request members to read Azadari Az deegahe Marjiyat. As Brother Hasin said sources are there to get it and translate it. I was told that since we follow Ayatullah Sistani so we should follow him, right no objections but when it comes to Aalims and sheikhs then we consider Marja as authority over them not marja over marja for their followers. I was told in this forum that most of us do Taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani then instead of asking him why when someone said it Biddat in this forum only it wasn’t questioned. Don’t we think the most learned are those who spent their whole life in Islamic studies rather like us who goes for 1 or 2 hours 3-4 times a week and state that though literally I am Ayatullah wasn’t it should be questioned.
3. Someone says where is Gairah of Imam Zainul Abdeen a.s. when Ahlulbait were without Hijab. Friends can anyone tell me what is Hijab( is it covering of face or hairs, anyways I had given the names of two books above and Khutba of Bibi Zainab a.s. before saying anything one should read those) or does islam changed after Imam Hussein a.s. no need to discuss this issue all knows what is Hijab according to our Marja
4. Islamic Laws clearly states the ruling of prayer of traveler then why was six rakats of Namze Zohar and six of Asr was offered by Pesh Imam.
5. Brother Hasin asked for Fatwas from Iraq, yes I had seen myself but I found if its posted here then also there is no use as after so much arguments and proofs, people are replying with laughing and other similes which seemed humiliation of Islamic discussion to me. I don’t want insult of those Great Scholars like the Aalims of sub continent were insulted in this Shia Forum only. Can anyone name those scholars who recited wrong and what people did if they knew they recited wrongly. I myself kept good faith and didn’t came any conclusion till I had meeting with Sheikh where he said shedding of blood Haraam and Zanjeer etc. Biddat. Am giving example of planned shedding of blood as reference of Uwais e Qarni was said instant. At the time of Mwakkil l.a. people not only shed blood but also gave their parts of body and even life, imam a.s. never condemned why ? was it wrong or right. Today in presence of our Great Scholars and especially Ayatullah Sistani Zanjeer, Qama(Tatbir) performed all over Iraq and no Fatwa issued against it. Isn’t it’s a duty of Marja to stop if its wrong or Haraam that too in front of them.
Here i want to stop and relate a part of history and I don’t think anyone will question its authenticity :- (very shortly)
On the day of Id-ul-Fitr Prophet s.w.w.s. acted as a camel and Hasnein a.s. rided , He gave his Hairs as Reins. He s.w.w.s. cried like camel.
Now the question did prophet s.w.w.s. was not prophet for that particular time, was he not the most learned in whole universe. Was he lowering himself to act as an animal being Ashraful Makhlukat and above all the Head of whole universe. why he performed that act. Isn’t it was for the love of Hasnein a.s. Did this act lowered him? When someone said to Prophet a.s.what a ride he replied say what a rider. I know one can say its his Humanly act to that I reply in advance Hz Isa a.s. can be Nabi-Allah even in cradle without objection while Our Prophet was and is Prophet from start of his existence till Allah wishes.
Prophet does this act only and only for his love towards Imam a.s. and if we do Zanjeer, Qama or walk on fire coz of Love of Imam a.s. its called Biddat and Haraam is it justice.
6. I had a question to ask did we used any bad words regarding Sheikh while in letter from Sheikh post what he said ? regarding the Zakireens of Ahlulbait a.s. I think all knows, is it fair. What he exposed, who are mislead and how? Isn’t its responsibility for the moderator to comment.
7. Pronography issue who said this ??????? if it was said to him personally he should have replied there why in this forum.
8. I heard President said Sheikh Studied two years in Qum if I heard correctly, I don’t how it increased by 8 yrs more.
9. I personally I had no grudge against anyone and why should I have but one should not be deaf and dumb that anyone says anything from Pulpit and it should be accepted. This process was done by Mwawiyya l.a. he used pulpit for his benefit and people followed him without objection coz of pulpit , was that right? Mind it am not comparing neither one as prophet for the above mentioned prophet a.s. act of Camel nor one as mwawiyya l.a.
10. Last but not least I never said anyone Wahabi (they are open enemy of Shias) nor Ayatullah. Before I conclude I want to tell that according to Jaan Ali shah Kazmi in Burma hundreds of people turned towards Shia Mazhab coz of Khandaq and are continue to do so, one can confirm with him. Regarding Khadaq origination it started from Iraq and if I recollect rightly it started from Hilla

My request if anyone wants to discuss, it should go point wise, 1-10 all not few selected ones. and please no quoting of in between lines as it changes the meanings sometimes.

i was asked to refrain from posting by one member of this forum whom i respect ,for sometime thats was completly away from it.Secondly was promised reply from Sheikh in meeting which never took place.Anyways i had lots of things but i can't say in open Forum to avoid Fitna i raised only those points which is known to all.
User avatar
By band-e-ali
#12027
brother have u received all three emails from the sheikh?.. it will clear alot that has been misunderstood.

wa salaam
By Ustaz Hussein
#13395
One foreign man doesn't help bring you this trial and confusion in Tanzania... But when i met with Ulemas and religious students in Syria and i told them about Shk. Zayd as-Salaami and the confusion about many things (including zanjir and so on and so forth) in Tanzania, i was astonished to see that the great Ulemas in Syria and religious students have such types of differences but they tolerate to live with eachother. They made me more astonished when they told me that its now years that we have been divided in such issues but we don't fight with eachother because of this. The holy Prophet (saaw) said,"The difference among my Ummah is a mercy", though we talk on educational, Jurisprudentual and historic differences. I, personally believe that Hz. Muhsin was killed by Umar ibn al-Khattab in the attack carried out against Syidah Zahra (sa). I also believe that the Hijab or at least the main traditional covering of the women of Ahlulbayt (as) was confiscated by the army of Yezid (la). I also believe that Zanjir can never be Haraam and many emotional practices as such were approved and praised by Ahlulbayt (as) but at the same time everything has boundaries. Rasulullah (saaw) said," Beware from extremism and extravagance in the matters of religion; many were destroyed before you because of extravagance in the matters of religion". Now, possibly Zanjir can be forbidden when it crosses its boundaries. Now this is my belief. The one who won't accept this belief of mine is a brother of mine in faith and i have no right to label him as a 'KAFIR'.
User avatar
By abuali
#13398
Well said brother.

I think we all have learned (at least I have) a lot from this issue.

Regardless of the differences between the lovers of Ahl Bayt (as), they all have unwavering love for the ahl bayt (as) and unwavering hatred for their murderers and oppressors.

This should be the strongest bond between us all, after Tawheed and Nabuwat.

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