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The sad first month of the Islamic calendar during which the family of the Holy Prophet were faced with a great ordeal and tragedy.
#11663
Salamun Alaikum,

Brother in islam, i ve been regularly following the very sensitive issue which has erupted in our community due to (as per my view) misunderstanding between the respected shaikh and our brothers .

we have to keep in mind one thing and that is not to lower any human beings as only Allah (S.w.t) has all the power.Coming back to the actual point i had an opportunity to have some lenthghy discussions with our guest , respected shaikh zaid and i asked him to eloboarte in details what he meant exactly in his very brief friday khutbas. He clarified and said he too beleives in the concept of wujud of h.Mohsin (a.s) about the veil of bibi Zainab (a.s) was snatched ? in reply he said only the face cover was snatched, and about praying behind the wahabi in haram e sharif (in mecca and Medina) he said even agha seestani Fatwa is in favour of what he said. zanjeer ,qama zani, he said he still do not agree as it defames islam.

So i told him the following about the rulings which are been thought to us by aalims who accompny us when u go for hajj (as he said he has never been to hajj) that in order to maintain unity amongst muslim we should join the congregation prayers which is lead by imam of other sect( wahabi) with furada niyyat and can recite the zikr of Allah (s.w.t) in order to maintain the muwallat .in that he did not reply anything.

coming to second point i told him that he might be right that zanjeer etc defames islam , and is not right to practice them but i suggested him although my knowledge about islam is very very litlle comapre to his knowledge but i have more experiance in knowing how our brothers rigidness , so i asked him to have more evidence to his claims in order to make our brothers understand that what they have been practicing for 70 to 100 years was wrong and should avoid in future.

Coming to the third point of Bibi Zainab (a.s) veil : As im now 30 years old i ve been hearing all my life whether from mimber or from other media that bibi were covering their respected face with their hairs during their journey from kerbala to sham.so i asked the respected shaikh and the zakirs who are completely opposite of each other to prove to the disintegrating dar es salaam comunity members . As far as zakirs are concern i know them as they get their source from the books writtem by aalims and ulemas who had done a very scrutinized research as they are responsible to Allah (s.w.t) and ahlul bait . for their writtings, so im sure and have full confidence in them , plz brother here i mean only those authentic ulemas which r considerd having (very high level of knowledge) in our shia faith.

I asked the shaikh to have an open discussion with the respected dsm community in order to clarify the issue as he has clarified to us so people who might have misunderstood him can understand him.
i even ask the zakirin to have a meeting with shaikh and with other interested members if they want to attend in order to share each other's view , thinking and knowledge at large/

I asked other members of the community not to propogate and lable thsi issue as a "big fight" etc We shia will never fight each other as our aim is one , we want to practice and spread the message of our imam Hussain (a.s) .

I asked the responsible people like brother Memboob Somji to arrange such kind of gathering so as to enable our members who r right now too much confused to remove their doubts.

As to prove your claim whether its shaikh or zakirs or any other person u need to have authentic and reliable source, historians are not always right Alhamdu lillah we have upto present very learned and pious ulemas where we can get all the answers we are looking for, so no space for doubts in our religious practices as its the only unique and right religion in the world.

Jazakallah, wasalaam. your brother in islam.
#11725
Zanjeer and Khandaq is not Bidat.
Because those who are doing it are so for the love of Husein and not as part of religion.

And likewise it is not haraam either as the marja would not have given the reason of people not understanding it.

Instead he would have clearly dissallowed it.

The marja has clearly based his argument against the lookers who do not understand and not the doers.

It clearly depends on very rare situations when it can be discouraged on the basis mentioned by marja. A person can do taqiyya in that situation.

Infact I have seen people 10yrs back who were showing up just once a year for zanjeer but now are regular in mosque for jamaat prayers.

It is also very constructive for young children who are not interested in religion but are attracted to zanjeer and likewise grow up eventually knowing their religion through this tradition.
#11730
Because those who are doing it are so for the love of Husein and not as part of religion.
If that is the belief then no it is not biddat, but the way I see it, anybody who speaks against it is labeled wahabi such that most believe it is part of Islam.
Instead he would have clearly dissallowed it.
I think the marja has answered the question in a way that if you ponder and think over the answer you will see its not allowed. Have you considered the situation that maybe, just maybe the marja is doing taqiyya?
Infact I have seen people 10yrs back who were showing up just once a year for zanjeer but now are regular in mosque for jamaat prayers.
I dont get what you are saying. Can you please clarify?
It is also very constructive for young children who are not interested in religion but are attracted to zanjeer and likewise grow up eventually knowing their religion through this tradition.
Again, I do not think this is very true, at least in our community. I know of people who have been doing zanjeer for years since they were kids, however, they have problems performing the five daily prayers!

Hope to hear again from you :P
#11756
If that is the belief then no it is not biddat, but the way I see it, anybody who speaks against it is labeled wahabi such that most believe it is part of Islam.
If you look from the other angle; they do not consider it as part of religion, but they are protecting fiercely a tradition, which they consider advantageous to their faith.
#11757
I think the marja has answered the question in a way that if you ponder and think over the answer you will see its not allowed. Have you considered the situation that maybe, just maybe the marja is doing taqiyya?
If we go to that basis of reasoning that marja could not prohibit it clearly and he adopted taqiyya than we should follow his path and do taqqiyya also.
#11782
b]BLUNT REPLY BY JAMAAT AUTHORITIES........[/b][/u]

IT IS VERY DISCOURAGING TO HEAR THAT OUR JAMAAT WHOM WE ALL BELEIVE TO BE OUR PARENTS (OUR MAI BAAP AS SAID IN OUR LOCAL LANG.)TO REPLY IM SUCH A WAY. LEADERSHIP QUALITIES IS A MUST HAVE IN EVERY LEADER BUT UNFORTUNATELY ITS UNTRUE WHEN IT COMES TO OUR JAMAAT LEADERS WHOM WE VOTE,DOES NOT SUPPORT US. EVEN THOUGH KNOWING THAT ITI S VERY BENEFICIAL IN UNITING OUR COMMUNITY.

IN MY PREVIOUS ARTICLE I HAD SUGGESTED THAT WE SHOULD GIVE CHANCE TO THE ACCUSEE AND THE ACCUSED TO CLARIFY THEMSELVES AS IM SURE BOTH OF THE PARTY ARE RIGHT ON THEIR SIDE SO WE GIVE THEM CHANCE TO CLARIFY THE ISSUE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC WHOM I GUESS ARE VERY CONFUSED. THIS IS AN ISSUE OF ISLAM AND NOT PERSONAL SO IT BECOMES VERY EMOTIONAL AND SENSITIVE ISSUE IF NOT SOLVED THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. IT WILL BRING A VERY BAD IMPACT ON OUR YOUTHS AND EV.ONE ELSE AT LARGE.
SO THE RESPONSIBILITY LIES IN THE HANDS OF EVERY INDIVIDUAL, BUT IT LIES MAINLY WITH JAMAAT AUTHORITY AS THEY CAN BE THE BEST MODERATOR. BUT VERY UNFORTUNATELY OUR LEADERS ARE NOT VERY COOPERATIVE , I VE TO SAY THIS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT COOPERATE WITH NOT ONLY ORDINARY JAMAAT MEMBERS ,BUT EVEN WITH THE ZAKIREENS WHOM IM SURE ( THEY VE FULL TRUST AND FAITH IN THEM) AS THEY ALLOW THEM TO SIT AND PREACH FROM THE PROPHET'S MIMBER.
I M VERY SURPRISE, SO U WILL ,AFTER HEARING VERY DISCOURAGING TRUTH OF OUR (MAYBE) TRUSTED LEADERS. WE HAVE HEARD MANY THINGS AND BLUNDERS OF THEM AND THEY PUBLICLY MADE OUR MOST TRUSTED LEADER BR.ANVERBHAI DHARAMSI TO APPOLOGISE FOR THEIR MISTAKES( EG. THEY SOLD THE PLOT BEFORE EVEN THE CONSENT OF THE JAMAAT MEMBERS, ITS AGAINST THE JAMAAT CONSTITUTE.) WE MIGHT FORGIVE THIS , BUT WHEN IT COMES TO ISLAMIC ISSUE ITS NOT IN OUR HANDS TO FORGIVE AND IF WE KEEP QUITE THAN WE ARE ANSWERABLE TO ALMIGHTY.
SO CONSIDERING THIS, ONE OF THE VERY HONEST AND ACTIVE ZAKIR CAME UP WITH AN IDEA OF SOLVING THE ISSUE VERY CALMLY WITH GOOD FAITH, HE COMMUNICATED WITH ONE OF THE JAMAAT LEADER (NAME WITHELD) AND REQUESTED HIM TO ASK THE RESPECTED SHAIKH AND THE REST OF THE ZAKIREENS WHO ARE SOMEHOW AGAINST WHAT THE SHAIKH HAD SAID IN HIS UNCLEARED JUMAA KHUTBAS TO COME TOGETHER AND CLARIFY THE ISSUE NICELY BY SHARING EACH OTHER 'S VIEWS AND KNOWLEDGE AND FINISH THE ISSUE FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERYONE AND THE JAMAAT AT LARGE.
AT FIRST AS USSUAL HE (JAMAAT LEADER) REPLIED RUDELY AND AFTER SOME REASONS POLITICALY (MAYBE I GUESS) HE SAID TO THIS ZAKIR TO GIVE HIM 3 DAYS SO HE CAN COME UP WITH THE POSSIBILITY TO ARRANGE THE DATES FOR THE GET -TO- GATHER IN ORDER TO FINISH THE ISSUE NICELY.
AFTER 3 DAYS WHEN TE CONCERNED ZAKIR PHONED HIM HE REPLIED VERY BLUNTLY AND RUDELY THAT WE (THE JAMAAT AUTH.)HAVE NEVER HEARD ANY THING OF CONTRADICTION FROM THE RESPECTED (SHORT TERM GUEST) SHAIKH. SO IT MEANS THAT ALL ZAKIRS ARE LIERS AND EVEN THE MOMINEENS WHO BACK THEM ARE ALL INSANE .ALLAH (SWT) KNOWS BETTER .

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING AND JUDGE YOURSELF KEEPING ALLAH (SWT) INFORNT OF YOUR JUDGEMENT.

WHOSE FAULT IT IS ? SHAIKH OR THE ZAKIRS? (PLZ IM NOT COMPARING THEM WITH EACH OTHER BUT ITS JUST THE FACTS)

SHAIKH: HE SAID UNCLEARED KHUTBAS ( WITHOUT CLEARING THE ISSUE WHAT HE MEANT) EG PRAYING NAMAZ-E- JAMAAT BEHIND WAHABI IMAM IN MECCA IS ALLOWED, TO REMIND YOU THE FATWA OF AGHA SEESTANI IS. U PRAY JAMAAT BUT WITH THE NIYYAT OF FURADA IT MEANS THE SURAS U HAVE TO RECITE YOUSELF WITH ALL THE OTHER ZIKRS. EVEN IF U GO TO HAJJ, IN DAILY MASAELS BY OUR OLEMA WHO ACCOMPANY THE HUJJAJ HAS THE SAME OPINION AS OUR MUJTAHIDS AND TEACHES THE SAME . HERE IS THE CONTRADICTION, SO THE SHAIKH WAS SUPPOSE TO CLARIFY AND JUSTIFY HIS CLAIMS. SO WHAT WAS THE FAULT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ASKED FOR THE CLARIFICATION FROM THE SHAIKH?

SHAIKH: SECOND THE RIDA (VEIL) OF BIBI ZAINAB (A.S) HE SAID ONLY THE FACE COVER WAS SNATCHED AND NOT THE WHOLE VEIL, THE CONTRADICTION IS AROUND 50 BOOKS WRITTEN BY HIGHLY LEARNED ULEMA N TRUSTED BY SHIA HAVE RESEARCHED AND WRITTEN IN THEIR RESPECTED BOOKS THAT THE WHOLE VEIL WAS SNATCHED, HOW COME THEN THE SHAIKH'S SINGLE BOOK REFERENCE CAN DENIE THIS FACT. SO HERE THE ZAKIRS ASKED HIM TO CLARIFY AND PROVE WHAT HE SAID WITH MORE AUTHENTIC REFERENCE THAN WHAT THEY HAVE , SO WAS THIS A FAULT?
THERE ARE ALOT OF OTHER CONTRADICTION ISSUE WHICH I CANNOT LIST THEM HERE
SO THE MAIN AIM OF ZAKIR WAS CLARIFICATION, AS THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THEY SAY FROM THE MIMBER.
I SINCERLY ASK THE JAMAAT WHOM NOW I HAVE VERY LITTLE FAITH IN THEM TO RECONSIDER THEIR (ZAKIRS AND MEMBERS) REQUEST. ITS BENEFICIAL TO ALL.

LAST I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT THE JAMAAT ALWAYS TAKE OUT REASONS THAT BY OPEN FORUM OR DISCUSSION IT WILL BRING THE DISUNITY WITHIN JAMAAT MEMBERS IS VERY UNTRUE AS IT HAS ALREADY BROUGHT DISUNITY. IN ORDER TO BRING UNITY IS TO CLARIFY THE ISSUE BEFORE THE SHAIKH LEAVES
WASALAAM MAY ALLAH(SWT) GUIDE US ALL . AMEEN.
Last edited by championfuture on 14 Feb 2008, 09:13, edited 1 time in total.
#11784
championfuture wrote:b]BLUNT REPLY BY JAMAAT AUTHORITIES........[/b][/u]

( EG. THEY SOLD THE PLOT BEFORE EVEN THE CONSENT OF THE JAMAAT MEMBERS, ITS AGAINST THE JAMAAT CONSTITUTE.) WE MIGHT FORGIVE THIS , BUT WHEN IT COMES TO ISLAMIC ISSUE ITS NOT IN OUR HANDS TO FORGIVE AND IF WE KEEP QUITE THAN WE ARE ANSWERABLE TO ALMIGHTY.
I think the issue you mentioned (about properties) is more serious to keep quiet about than the current issue (which seems to be a case of misinterpretations and petty differences). Remember the issue of Fadak?

refer to http://www.ask.or.tz/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2200
#11796
Last edited by abuali on 16 Feb 2008, 00:31, edited 3 times in total. Reason: moved to a new topic. Please repost your comment there so i can remove mine
#11806
Dear mohammad
We are shia ne ali and we all do taqleed of mujtahids. we are not intrested in following any shaykh Zayd Salami or scholar.

why to follow him if we have fatwa of more than 100 mujtahids that is it allowed? is haykh Zayd Salami think he is most leaned than these mujtahids?
http://www.tnfj.org.pk/azadari/
Some anti-Islam internal and external forces present the Fatawa (verdicts) and opinions of Maraje Uzzam with distortion and tempering and some time present original fatwa with their expert comments just to send wrong mesage to lovers of ahlulbayt..

Grand Ayatullah as-Seyyid as-Seestani Fatwa is very clear...

(The current leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf)
http://www.ezsoftech.com/mazloom/zanjeer.asp


Question: What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?

Answer: If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.

here he said No Objection.......

and your mr shaykh Zayd Salami is trying to tell us it is prohibited in the eyes of Grand Ayatullah as-Seyyid as-Seestani .
Do you not think he is trying to misguide....

Now second point:

You post by the name of Shaykh Zayd Salami, in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008, first quoted two or three fatwa and then started to give us their expert comments.....

ARE YOU SURE THAT FATWA IS GIVEN ON BY Shaykh Zayd Salami, in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008,?

If YES THEN YOU ARE A LIER(SORRY TO SAY) OR Shaykh Zayd Salami is a copy master OR Shaykh Zayd Salami is working on this issue sisnce 2002.

YOUR POST IS A OLD VERSION OF SAME CHAIN POST WITH WITH WISELY EDITED VERSION. EDITED BECAUSE PEOPLE CAUGHT YOU PEOPLE OPENLY DEFENDING YAZEEDI LASHKAR.
REFER THIS POST:
http://www.ezsoftech.com/mazloom/zanjeer.asp (Posted in 2002)
http://www.ask.or.tz/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2170 ( MR mohamamd said Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008)

I request all the members to read comments in both posts after quoted fatwa.....

you will find same words with some changes..
for ex in old version you will see these words"(1) we do this Zanjeer and Qama Zani pre-planned and we do it every year and Owais-e-Qarani did it only once so we can't make habit of it"

in new one they removed because shia caught them " chest matam, arranging majalis, weeping on masaeb, all type of matam also falls under pre-planned way according to wahabi websites..

In fact these people acting like agents of some enemies of ahlulbayt trying to create doubts for masaeb e ahlulbayt at karbala, trying to defend acts and zulm or yazeed and also trying to stop complete azadari.....

be care full of these black sheeps on our community.

Ayatullh Tabrizi Adviced in his Last will to all of us.....

"My advice today for all the believers is to defend the rightful sect's postulates, and to not give anybody the chance to plant doubts and throw llusions in the public's minds and especially in the Husayni
rituals case, as the preservation of the sect depends on the preservation of the Husayni rituals."
Visit to listen replies of all allegations on shia by hujjatul islam sayyid moosvi (nayab ayatullah seestani)
http://alqaem.org/cssues.html
wassalam
#11809
is haykh Zayd Salami think he is most leaned than these mujtahids?
Salaams bro or sis
I would like to request you to keep such questions which may insult the shiekh to a minimum. I am happy to see you here discussing this matter, but in order for constructive discussions to take place, we need to work peacefully. :P

The site you provided, has no references whatsoever. How do we know they are authentic?
Question: What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?

Answer: If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.

here he said No Objection.......
Sorry, I do not see this on the page. What I do see is this:
Question by Zaeem Sherazi: I want to know the status of beating our backs with knives (ZANJEER) on the day of Ashura? What is it status in our Fiqh?

Answer by Board of Istifa, Office of Grand Ayatollah Sistani: The philosophy of mourning during 'Ashura', is to respect the symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain (as), his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals. So those actions which are not understandable and causes misunderstanding and contempt for the religion must be avoided.


I too have heard about the loss of limbs fatwa and hence we need to combine these two and come to the conclusion that zanjeer in itself may not be bad, but when associated with loss of limbs, or defamation of Islam particularly Shiism, it is prohibited.
and your mr shaykh Zayd Salami is trying to tell us it is prohibited in the eyes of Grand Ayatullah as-Seyyid as-Seestani .
Do you not think he is trying to misguide....
Please refer to my first post on this forum where I posted a reply from the office of Ayatullah Sistani.
You post by the name of Shaykh Zayd Salami, in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008, first quoted two or three fatwa and then started to give us their expert comments.....

ARE YOU SURE THAT FATWA IS GIVEN ON BY Shaykh Zayd Salami, in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008,?

If YES THEN YOU ARE A LIER(SORRY TO SAY) OR Shaykh Zayd Salami is a copy master OR Shaykh Zayd Salami is working on this issue sisnce 2002.
Sorry, I do not understand what you are trying to say. Can you please elaborate? :wink:
YOUR POST IS A OLD VERSION OF SAME CHAIN POST WITH WITH WISELY EDITED VERSION. EDITED BECAUSE PEOPLE CAUGHT YOU PEOPLE OPENLY DEFENDING YAZEEDI LASHKAR.
My post was a compilation of the different material I found available. Some of it was from the site you have posted and some from elsewhere. However, I do not think I was defending Yazeed.
in new one they removed because shia caught them
You write as if I am not shia. :roll:
be care full of these black sheeps on our community.
So now I am a black sheep? Well lets see, I was wahabi, ayatullah, and now black sheep. :lol:
#11822
Dear mohammad
Well this is hard to believe. It is okay to ask the "mulla chopris" for answers but when an aalim who has studied ten years, comes and tells us things we do not want to hear, we abuse and insult him?
As per you yours Alim studied ten years. without asking where he studied i would like to confirm he do not have any right to speak against mujtahuids and his senior scholars. and even Allam.
http://www.tnfj.org.pk/azadari/
Ayatullah seestani said"
Question: What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?

Answer: If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.
and you also agree that you also know this.....In fact this fatwa is well known fatwa and all scholar know this. what fatwa you quoted is same with change of wordings IF YOU WANT TO SAY AYATULLAH SEESTANI ISSUED TWO TYPE OF FATWA IN ONE HE SAID NO OBJECTION(CONDITION APPLY) AND IN ONE PROHIBITED THAN YOU ARE TRYING TO INSYLT HIM ALSO.

MAJORITY OF MUJTAHIDS SAID MORE OF LESS SAME iF THERE IS FEAR OF DEATH OR PERMANENT LOSS OF LIMB THEN IT IS PROHIBITED BECAUSE KILLING YOURSELVES WITH INTENTION OF CUTTING YOUR LIMB PERMANENTLY IS HARAM ACT..

WE ALL KNOW NO ONE TRY TO KILL OR CUT HIS LIMB PERMANENTLY...
Sorry, I do not understand what you are trying to say. Can you please elaborate?
You can write here and also listen your mullas lecture so i cant say you are blind and deaf BUt the question comes why you cant read this? CANT READ OR DO NOT WANT TO READ? SHOULD I QUOTE QURAN ABOUT YOUR THIS ACT?

I AM EXPLAINING YOU..ONCE MORE..MY QUOTED WORDS.which you intentionally do not want to read as you know we caught you.....

YOUR POST IS A OLD VERSION OF SAME CHAIN POST WITH WITH WISELY EDITED VERSION. EDITED BECAUSE PEOPLE CAUGHT YOU PEOPLE OPENLY DEFENDING YAZEEDI LASHKAR.
REFER THIS POST:
http://www.ezsoftech.com/mazloom/zanjeer.asp (Posted in 2002)
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2170 ( MR mohamamd said Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008)

I request all the members to read comments in both posts after quoted fatwa.....
Your first post is Shaykh Zayd Salami, in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008 said this....(NEW VERSION 2008)

SAME POST WITH DIFFERENT EXPLAINATION WITH SAME REF FATWA IS HERE http://www.ezsoftech.com/mazloom/zanjeer.asp(OLD VERSION 2002)

Fatwa quoted by you and in old version is same BUT DIFFERENT IS EXPLANATION .INFACT IN THIS NEW VERSION JUST YOUR SO CALLED MULLA CHANGED FEW WORDS AND REMOVED FEW SENTENCES.

I AM FOR REF OF ALL THE MEMBERS QUOTING BOTH EXPLANATION.

NEW VERSION 2008 posted by muhammad
s can be seen quite clearly from the fatwas of these three great Mujtahids, actions like Qama Zani and Zanjeer must not be practiced. To support the Ulama’s belief that the kuffar misuse such actions, visit the sites below and see for yourself.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20 ... _islam.htm
http://www.ansar.org/english/photos-eng.htm
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/maatam.htm


We then naturally come to the question, “How then, was Hadhhrat Uwais-al Qarni’s action justifiable?”
1. When Hadhrat Uwais broke his teeth, the enemies of Islam did not point that action out as something bad as they do now. Hence due to the situation today, the Ulama consider it best that such actions not be performed.

Surah Baqarah:Verse 104 is a Qur’anic reference to prove this viewpoint, as Allah says, “O you who believe, say not (unto the Prophet), Look upon us but say Look upon us…” The words raena and andharna have similar meanings in Arabic (look upon us). However, in Hebrew, raena is a swear word. Thus when the early Muslims used to call upon the Prophet with raena, the Jews used to mock them. To stop this mocking, Allah commanded the Muslims to refer to the Prophet differently.

2. When Hadhrat Uwais broke his teeth, he did it out of emotion and love for the Prophet. Thus when the Prophet used to praise Uwais, he did not praise the breaking of the teeth but the sincerity of the action.

3. Hadhrat Uwais broke his teeth only once; and never did he do any other such action. Thus we too cannot make it a habit as we see no continuation of such practice after Uwais; during the lifetime of the Prophet with the other As’hab or during the lifetime of the other Imams after the tragedy of Karbala. Imam Husayn (as) himself asked Bibi Zaynab (as) not to beat herself and pull her hair after his martyrdom.

As we have seen from the above explanations that the acts of Zanjeer, walking on fire and the like are not beneficial nor permissible. Let us, who have accused and abused the brave Shaykh go and apologize to him and to Imam Husayn (as) for our indecent actions. I would also like to ask those with “little education” to think carefully before slandering an alim or reciter of Husayn (as).

All of us must have experienced loss of a dear one and thus real grief at one time or the other. We will only then feel like beating our chests and heads. That is a spontaneous reaction to the grief. Such is the reaction we show during azadari, however, with a difference: after smoking a couple of cigarettes and gulping down some juice, after cracking a few jokes outside the imambara. Can we call that real grief?

And if it is very important for us to give out blood, then why not donate blood? This way, we will be spreading the message of Imam peacefully and saving lives too. And if we feel the spirit is not there while doing so, let us take an mp4 player with us and play a nawha while doing this noble act!


NOW OLD VERSION 2002 PUBLISHED BY TWEBSITE

After reading the above mentioned orders from two Great Ayatollah's of our times. People should start following the orders to safeguard Islam and to fail the propaganda of "Taghoot" and arrogant powers of this era against Shiites proving them "Crazy" & "Insane" people who beat themselves sometimes so hard even threatening their own lives. To see the propaganda of "Taghoot" by yourself to believe, please visit the below given four links.

As such the true form of Azadari (mourning) is relevant to Wilayat only. The Azadari seen mostly are a set of rituals which are done with the purpose of earning rewards, expressing love of Imam Hussain (a.s.) in the form of grief, or expressing condolence to his mother Fatima Zahra (s.a.). Whereas Azadari in its true sense is awakening of the Ummah to stand and protest against the Yazid of our age and denounce their cruel and harmful policies towards Islam, and this spirit is very much lacking in our Azadari sessions, and this can only be enlightened through the Wilayat of the righteous, that is the Ulama (Faqih) during the occultation of Imam-e-Zamana (a.t.f.s.).

As far as mourning is concerned and getting attention of entire world, then it should be done very nicely with "beating chests and heads with hands" and with complete discipline in procession. All the people should participate with fully dressed in black cloths. Then definitely it will impress the entire world and will force them to accept us as a peace loving people. On the other hand people fear from Shiites when they see them doing Zanjeer Zani crazily and from head to toe covered with blood.

Some people call it Mojeza (Miracle) of Imam Hussain (a.s.), that there is no infection out of the wounds of Zanjeer and Qama.

As far as no infection with Zanjeer and Qama is concerned, shows the lack of knowledge regarding cultures and religions of world. National Geographic channel has shown many times that in some countries they do the same things which Shiites do and they neither feel pain nor infection after doing so. Hence they can also claim it as Mojeza. So, it has been decided that religion can not be practiced according to our assumptions and self-made thoughts instead we should commemorate true Azadri with its soul.

Some says; this is an issue of Aqeeda, whereas Taqleed is forbidden in Aqeeda, so what concern we have with the Marjae's?

This is one more ignorant question. Aqeeda (Usool example Tauheed) is belief, beliefs are always in the heart, when the beliefs get manifested in practical form it becomes Furoo (example Salaat), and all Furoo are controlled by laws of Shariah. Now love for Allah is Tauheed, but when the same love comes into action it become Salaat, which is Furoo, and Shariah will tell us the way of Salaat. In a similar way, the love of Imam Hussain (a.s.) is Aqeeda, but when the same love comes in practical form, it becomes Furoo (example Azadari) and has to be controlled by Shariah.

As far as matter of Owais-e-Qarani is concerned, he didn't broke his teeth's deliberately but infact it was emotional act and was not pre-planned thing rather than it was unplanned and very quick as he heard the news of the Prophet's broken teeth's. So if we suppose that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) didn't object on it then even we can't relate it to Zanjeer and Qama Zani's permission. Because (1) we do this Zanjeer and Qama Zani pre-planned and we do it every year and Owais-e-Qarani did it only once so we can't make habit of it. (2) we see no continuation of such practice after Owais-e-Qarani, hence proving that its not desirable or Mustahab thing otherwise other companions (Sahabas) would have done it or after that any of companions of Aimma would have done it when hearing martyrdom of any Imam.

Hence it is proved that we find no legal status of shedding blood deliberately and make a practice of it every year rather then we should try to find out the ways which Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) has done, don't forget after Imam Hussain (AS), we have the history of eight (8) Imams, its not less. Why sticks on the act of Owais-e-Qarani only hence try to prove baseless thing?
I REQUEST ALL THE MEMBERS TO READ BOTH CAREFULLY AND THINK IF REALLY POST OF MUHAMMAD IS A KHUTBA GIVEN BY Shaykh Zayd Salami in his Friday khutba of 4th Janary 2008?
IF YES THEN WHO IS Shaykh Zayd Salami ? A SCHOLAR OR ANY AGENT READING POST PREPARED (IN 2002) BY DUSHMANAAN E ISLAM IN FRIDAY KHUTBA?
OR
THIS MAN TRYING TO MISGUIDE US BY TAKING NAME OF SHIA SCHOLAR Shaykh Zayd Salami?

IN FACT I DO NOT KNOW WHO IS Shaykh Zayd Salami..SO ALL IS POSSIBLE.

wassalam
#11864
Someone posted this ruling of ayatullah khamenai:
Walking on Fire in the Mourning Ceremony of Imam Ḥusayn (a.)
Q: What is the ruling concerning walking on fire in the mourning ceremony of Imam Ḥusayn (a.)?
A: According to shar‘, such acts are not justified. There are variable ways for commemorating the martyrdom of the Master of Martyrs (a.) such as talking about the sufferings of Ahl al-Bayt (a.) and weeping at the unfairness they faced.
The question come what we understand by his rulings?
The word NOT justifies means is not good practice in his eyes. It does not mean it is Haram, or .prohibited. and his followers can follow his rulings.
runings of other mustahids are different...
I have seen personally so many scholars who are follower of ayatullah khomaini (r.a) and ayatullah khamenai ...sit and watch fire matam, explain its origin and encourage those who take part..

see this bolg

Image
Image

http://smma59.wordpress.com/2007/05/29/ ... ire-matam/
#11874
Salaams to all Muhhib-bane Mohammed ale mohammed a.s.

May Allah bless all those who loves ahlulbait a.s. and those who grief on the sad events of them.
When Imam Zainul Abdeen a.s. was brought to court in Sham. Yazeed l.a. started with sentence like Allah had dishonored you…. And he continues. He got the best of replies from our Imam but no history tell us that anyone who was with Yazeed l.a. had turned from his side or openly opposed him among not less than 500 officials. My point is even when one is sure that something wrong was said , why people trying to protect instead of opposing. Well I had already pointed out what was done still favors follows, I don’t see reason to discuss further all had been answered from the pulpit and I witnessed people from this forum were present.

1. I was asked to provide riwayah regarding Veil Snatching when I provided the most well known and Authentic Khutba of Bibi Zainab a.s. in Sham, instead of looking into it , I was countered with the literal meaning of bare headed and Arabic word with face exposed underlined , while the same sheikh said faces exposed. Anyways I have all the Arabic Text from Lahuf, Riazul Masayab and many other authentic books. I hadn’t found the discussion was with open minds, so there is no need to provide here as I was provided with the reference of qam qam zarakkha where it states that Imam Hussein a.s. and his Ashaab did ghusl with salty water. Did we believe that thirsty of three days will do ghusl but not drink coz of salt neways no need to discuss everyone knows the truth. For Hasin ,Mukhtarnama itself suggests life history of hz mukhtar, in tabligh committee you will find the video version recited by Zakir. Also there is one more video of master of Ilme Rejal (who judge the authenticity of Riwayah) who clearly narrate the event of Bibi Zainab a.s. in Court of Yazeed l.a. and his wife came running to give her veil to Bibi Zainab a.s. on seeing her bare headed and Yazeed l.a. put his coat over her wife’s head. Maulana Akmal recited yesterday about Bibi's Bare head was he wrong? maulana from Nairobi on 20th of Imam recited was he wrong. He even mentioned the crying of blood as tears by Marja with reference while Sheikh said to my question of Imam E zamana a.j.t.f.s. in ziarat as he should weep blood instead of tears for Imam a.s. as metaphor, was it right?
2. Regarding Zanjeer, Qama and khandaq , I request members to read Azadari Az deegahe Marjiyat. As Brother Hasin said sources are there to get it and translate it. I was told that since we follow Ayatullah Sistani so we should follow him, right no objections but when it comes to Aalims and sheikhs then we consider Marja as authority over them not marja over marja for their followers. I was told in this forum that most of us do Taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani then instead of asking him why when someone said it Biddat in this forum only it wasn’t questioned. Don’t we think the most learned are those who spent their whole life in Islamic studies rather like us who goes for 1 or 2 hours 3-4 times a week and state that though literally I am Ayatullah wasn’t it should be questioned.
3. Someone says where is Gairah of Imam Zainul Abdeen a.s. when Ahlulbait were without Hijab. Friends can anyone tell me what is Hijab( is it covering of face or hairs, anyways I had given the names of two books above and Khutba of Bibi Zainab a.s. before saying anything one should read those) or does islam changed after Imam Hussein a.s. no need to discuss this issue all knows what is Hijab according to our Marja
4. Islamic Laws clearly states the ruling of prayer of traveler then why was six rakats of Namze Zohar and six of Asr was offered by Pesh Imam.
5. Brother Hasin asked for Fatwas from Iraq, yes I had seen myself but I found if its posted here then also there is no use as after so much arguments and proofs, people are replying with laughing and other similes which seemed humiliation of Islamic discussion to me. I don’t want insult of those Great Scholars like the Aalims of sub continent were insulted in this Shia Forum only. Can anyone name those scholars who recited wrong and what people did if they knew they recited wrongly. I myself kept good faith and didn’t came any conclusion till I had meeting with Sheikh where he said shedding of blood Haraam and Zanjeer etc. Biddat. Am giving example of planned shedding of blood as reference of Uwais e Qarni was said instant. At the time of Mwakkil l.a. people not only shed blood but also gave their parts of body and even life, imam a.s. never condemned why ? was it wrong or right. Today in presence of our Great Scholars and especially Ayatullah Sistani Zanjeer, Qama(Tatbir) performed all over Iraq and no Fatwa issued against it. Isn’t it’s a duty of Marja to stop if its wrong or Haraam that too in front of them.
Here i want to stop and relate a part of history and I don’t think anyone will question its authenticity :- (very shortly)
On the day of Id-ul-Fitr Prophet s.w.w.s. acted as a camel and Hasnein a.s. rided , He gave his Hairs as Reins. He s.w.w.s. cried like camel.
Now the question did prophet s.w.w.s. was not prophet for that particular time, was he not the most learned in whole universe. Was he lowering himself to act as an animal being Ashraful Makhlukat and above all the Head of whole universe. why he performed that act. Isn’t it was for the love of Hasnein a.s. Did this act lowered him? When someone said to Prophet a.s.what a ride he replied say what a rider. I know one can say its his Humanly act to that I reply in advance Hz Isa a.s. can be Nabi-Allah even in cradle without objection while Our Prophet was and is Prophet from start of his existence till Allah wishes.
Prophet does this act only and only for his love towards Imam a.s. and if we do Zanjeer, Qama or walk on fire coz of Love of Imam a.s. its called Biddat and Haraam is it justice.
6. I had a question to ask did we used any bad words regarding Sheikh while in letter from Sheikh post what he said ? regarding the Zakireens of Ahlulbait a.s. I think all knows, is it fair. What he exposed, who are mislead and how? Isn’t its responsibility for the moderator to comment.
7. Pronography issue who said this ??????? if it was said to him personally he should have replied there why in this forum.
8. I heard President said Sheikh Studied two years in Qum if I heard correctly, I don’t how it increased by 8 yrs more.
9. I personally I had no grudge against anyone and why should I have but one should not be deaf and dumb that anyone says anything from Pulpit and it should be accepted. This process was done by Mwawiyya l.a. he used pulpit for his benefit and people followed him without objection coz of pulpit , was that right? Mind it am not comparing neither one as prophet for the above mentioned prophet a.s. act of Camel nor one as mwawiyya l.a.
10. Last but not least I never said anyone Wahabi (they are open enemy of Shias) nor Ayatullah. Before I conclude I want to tell that according to Jaan Ali shah Kazmi in Burma hundreds of people turned towards Shia Mazhab coz of Khandaq and are continue to do so, one can confirm with him. Regarding Khadaq origination it started from Iraq and if I recollect rightly it started from Hilla

My request if anyone wants to discuss, it should go point wise, 1-10 all not few selected ones. and please no quoting of in between lines as it changes the meanings sometimes.

i was asked to refrain from posting by one member of this forum whom i respect ,for sometime thats was completly away from it.Secondly was promised reply from Sheikh in meeting which never took place.Anyways i had lots of things but i can't say in open Forum to avoid Fitna i raised only those points which is known to all.
am posting here also as it relates to this thread as well
#11876
salamalykum,
Jazakallah brother. One day we all have to answer Allah subhan o tala for our acts and deeds. In fact there is a group in whole shia community entered who is trying to create doubts in our youth about masaeb e ahlulbayt and specially about masaeb e karbala, which will never give positive result.

Ayatullh Tabrizi Adviced in his Last will to all of us....."My advice today for all the believers is to defend the rightful sect's postulates, and to not give anybody the chance to plant doubts and throw llusions in the public's minds and especially in the Husayni rituals case, as the preservation of the sect depends on the preservation of the Husayni rituals."

so those who do this or raise question like, janab e zainab's hijaab,janab e qasim;s marriage, weeping blood ect just ask them what they are doing ? WE ALL KNOW SUCH TYPE OF LECTURES DOES NOT FALL UNDER CAT> OF AMER BIL MAROOF.
ws
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