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Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 13:09
by Moonbeam
I'm wondering now if that i why i am addicted to bread?! :twisted: :confused: :P

Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 17:49
by Fatimah Zahra Karim
qamar wrote:the similar words simply mean that yeast can be used to make alcohol and not that yeast is alcohol or always makes alcohol.

in fact only one species of yeasts among the over 1500 known species is known to produce ethanol.


The important thing is that the species we use to make bread DOES produce ethanol. It is, in fact, the same species used to make drinking alcohol. (ie baker's yeast and brewer's yeast are both Saccharomyces cerevisiae) They are just different strains. That like different strains of the flu virus. Or different strains of HIV. The basic chemical processes are the same.

As regards the boiling point and evaporation, watch a pot of water boil and then come talk about it. All the water in the point won't evaporate away the instant it starts boiling. In addition, if you use a pressure cooker, not even that much will evaporate because of the closed environment, similar to the closed oven in which the bread is baked. Furthermore, boiling and evaporation are not synonymous, but I shall leave that lesson to your physics teacher. Or if you're done with school, maybe to google.

Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 17:50
by Fatimah Zahra Karim
Oh, and if you'll look through the thread, you'll note that nobody said yeast IS alcohol.

Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 08 Nov 2011, 01:01
by Insaan
salamualaykum
interesting topic. i was told by a reliable friend that the azam is a tool of the freemasons and this is one of the campaigns of the kuffar to trap the muslims into drinking liquor which is haram,
Sadiq Khaki (salam)

Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 08 Dec 2011, 18:01
by qamar
Muhammad Mahdi wrote:
at what stage is ethanol produced? Is this before the production of carbon dioxide or much much after?

a. Both Carbon dioxide and ethanol are produced simultaneously as a result of the respiration.


brother, you should have asked more questions of your chemistry teacher. carbon dioxide is produced at both stages, aerobically or anaerobically. ethanol is only produced anaerobically.
The fermentation process does not require oxygen. if oxygen is present, some species of yeast (Kluyveromyces lactis, Kluyveromyces lipolytica) oxidize pyruvate completely to carbon dioxide and water. this process is called respiration. thus these yeasts produce ethanol only in an anaerobic environment.
wikipedia


Muhammad Mahdi wrote:
during the bread-baking process, is the process of fermentation allowed to continue to such a time that ethanol is produced? or is it stopped much earlier?


b. the purpose of adding yeast is to raise the bread thru evolution of Carbon dioxide which happens simultaneously with ethanol. See a. above


consider my response above. carbon-dioxide (which is required for raising the dough) can be produced aerobically (which means no ethanol is produced). so aerobically, ethanol is not produced simultaneously with carbon dioxide. if this were the case, then you would have as many ethanol molecules as you would carbon dioxide (check the equation for anaerobic fermentation of glucose).

Muhammad Mahdi wrote:
considering #3 if there was any ethanol in the dough would it survive the baking process with the temperatures used in #4?


c. The uncooked dough may contain larger then even 5% of alcohol by volume. The bp of ethanol being around 78 c, most is evaporated at baking temperatures. Note the keyword 'most'. Hence due to evaporation, the alcohol content of the baked bread comes to around 0-0.5%. The alcohol is not completely eliminated!


Fatimah Zahra Karim wrote:As regards the boiling point and evaporation, watch a pot of water boil and then come talk about it. All the water in the point won't evaporate away the instant it starts boiling. In addition, if you use a pressure cooker, not even that much will evaporate because of the closed environment, similar to the closed oven in which the bread is baked.


ss. fatimah, comparing a pot FULL of water boiling to a mixture containing 0.5% of ethanol is illogical. lets make this easy for all of us to comprehend.

let us take a pan / sufuria and add with precision 95:5 ratio of water and ethanol respectively. lets then put the mixture under a temperature controlled Bunsen burner and heat it up to 80 c and let it stay at that temperature for the same amount of time dough is left to bake. lets then test the mixture to confirm if you can find your 0.5% of alcohol. (note I have said 80 c which is way below baking temperatures).

Muhammad Mahdi wrote:Ethanol is a product of respiration in the absence of oxygen. Thus initially, the yeast respires aerobically as there is oxygen present. The oxygen however runs out which then leads to anaerobic respiration and alcohol. Even if the dough is left open, not all the yeast has equal access to the oxygen as some will always be covered at the bottom or be enclosed within the dough.


the process in the absence of oxygen can never be called respiration. respiration is the aerobic process (i.e. in the presence of oxygen).

i suggest you visit a local bread bakery in dar es salaam and observe the process used and note that the dough is not covered up in air tight containers. plenty of oxygen is available for respiration to take place resulting in carbon dioxide and water.

furthermore, if we assume that perhaps at a bakery a poor laborer fell asleep and let the baking process continue longer than necessary (something that bakery owners do not allow to happen as its uneconomic) and a minute trace of ethanol resulted, this is definitely evaporated in the baking process based on the little experiment that I have detailed out above.

Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 08 Dec 2011, 19:03
by abuali
Insaan wrote:salamualaykum
interesting topic. i was told by a reliable friend that the azam is a tool of the freemasons and this is one of the campaigns of the kuffar to trap the muslims into drinking liquor which is haram,
Sadiq Khaki (salam)


(salam)

Aside from the very scientific discussion about bread (diversion from the main topic but i admit quite interesting), coming back to the malt, its hard to deny the premise that the purpose of making available non alcoholic drinks that look, smell and taste like alchol, is against the islamic guidelines.

Islam encourage distancing oneself from even the places where alcohol is made available or consumed (the effects of getting used to the sight and smell of alcoho can lead one to eventually embrace alcohol easily).

The premise that perhaps its made to serve as an alternative to those who consume alcohol does not hold due to the fact posted earlier that alcohol drinkers hate the taste.

Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 08 Dec 2011, 19:09
by qamar
brthr sadiq / insaan

do you mean that freemasons are providing alcoholic drinks and labeling them as non alcoholic so that unsuspecting muslims end up consuming them or they are trying to 'desensitize' muslims like (brthr/sstr?)hasin says?

Re: Azam Malt: 0% Alcohol?

Posted: 25 Dec 2011, 18:09
by qamar
remembered this discussion

how come no replies